A business owner and carer challenged Brighton and Hove City Council’s justifications for turning Western Road into a red route.
Catherine Lane, a member of the Western Road Community Group, compared a council press release, published yesterday (Thursday 10 September) with the report prepared for a cabinet meeting in the coming week.
She emailed members of the council’s cabinet and opposition councillors about the discrepancies between the two documents less than a week before a decision on the scheme is due to be made.
Ms Lane, who cares for her elderly father, told cabinet members in June, that the proposed red route would prevent blue badge holders from going to the shops.
She is also one of scores of traders and residents who attended a heated meeting with councillors on Tuesday (8 September).
Several spoke about how a red route would affect them, citing the experiences of traders in Lewes Road, London Road Preston Road.
The group is considering legal action if the council’s cabinet agrees to turn Western Road into a red route.
Traders are also worried about a 45-day closure of the road for rebuilding and resurfacing in the run up to the busiest time of the year for retailers. Many are expecting stock deliveries during the closure.
Ms Lane said yesterday (Thursday 10 September) that the report to the council’s cabinet said that the purpose of the route was to reduce congestion and improve bus journey times.
But in previous publicity material, Ms Lane said that the council had said that the red route would make Western Road a “safer place to shop” from Montpelier Road to Holland Road.
Yet, collision data in the report “does not identify incidents specifically attributable to vehicles loading or stopping at the kerbside”.
According to the council’s equality impact assessment, the scheme’s objectives are related to congestion, safety, carbon and air quality.
Ms Lane said: “Bus reliability does not appear. Residents have been told the scheme is primarily about safety (the April press release, the council’s news item of (Friday) 26 June headed ‘Western Road will be a safer place to shop’ and today’s statement) and primarily about buses (the June decision and the September report).
“Cabinet is entitled to know which.”
A council press release yesterday said: “The scheme is not about making money.”
But enforcement was expected to generate £50,000 year, the council said, a relatively small sum when compared with the wider parking service income.
The press release said that bus journeys took 16.7 per cent longer than they did in 2015, a detail that Ms Lane said was not in the official report.
She said: “We would be grateful to know the source of the figure, the baseline in minutes and how much of the increase is attributed to kerbside stopping as against general traffic growth over 11 years.
“If the council holds journey-time data for the corridor, we ask that it be placed before cabinet on Thursday. If it does not, we ask that the figure be withdrawn.”
She also questioned the “enforcement” rationale for a red route. Council figures said that there were 705 enforcement visits to vehicles parked on the existing double yellow lines from April to August this year, with 684 penalty charge notices issued and 2,315 vehicles being driven away.
Labour councillor Andrei Czolak, who represents Brunswick and Adelaide, has backed the red route and posted on his Facebook page that illegal parking along Western Road had been a continuing issue from when he was running for election in 2023.
Councillor Czolak said: “It’s become clear that the stretch of road has some of the highest numbers of enforcement in the city in terms of footfall.
“However, due to the five-minute observation rule (standard among local authorities), we’re not seeing the type of enforcement necessary to combat the illegal parking.
“Since this idea was originally floated a year ago, I (tragically) record the number of vehicles parked on double yellows between Waitrose and Palmeira Square when travelling by bus along the stretch of road.
“At 5pm today (Thursday 10 September), there was 44 vehicles (42 cars and two motorbikes), of which only five had a blue badge that I could see, that would justify their being there. Only 11 per cent of those parked there were adhering to the rules.
“There are a number of factors that the administration and council officers need to factor in to ensure that local businesses and those who have blue badges are best mitigated against disruption – but pretending that this issue doesn’t exist is just fanciful.”
Labour councillor Trevor Muten, the council’s cabinet member for transport and city infrastructure, said: “The resurfacing works represent an important investment in Western Road while the red route will help tackle long-standing problems with obstructive parking, congestion and delays.
“This will benefit residents, businesses, bus passengers and other road users alike.”
The cabinet is due to meet at 10.30am on Thursday (17 September) at Hove Town Hall. The meeting is scheduled to be webcast.
Brighton and Hove Council is rapidly becoming a parking company and not a local governing body elected to serve the residents of Brighton and Hove.
The red route would be yet another clobbering for local businesses. Haven’t they been clobbered enough alreadywith rates and VAT increases? A vibrant local community needs vibrant local businesses. Without them High Streets start dying as has been seen in many places. Red routes reduce businesses revenue significantly. There has to be a better way to control parking than killing off local businesses with a red route.
If it benefits the vast majority then it should happen. So 300000 residents Vs 10 shop owners and their lame friends and family petition.
I will boycott real patisserie if this doesn’t go through, promise you that.
I’m sure they will be horrified ……….
Great name, Ms Hogwash. You certainly live up to it. How would a Red Route “benefit” the majority and how would boycotting the Real Patisserie achieve anything? Plus how do you imagine your personal pastry needs would keep them going if a Red Route was installed? People need to be able to stop for a few minutes and pick up their cakes safely, especially large delicate cakes. Why should they receive a £70 PCN for doing that to put a sting in the tail of an important family occasion? These shops are having to compete with large sheds in retail parks offering free parking! The council needs to support them!
Well I hope you will all be happy when every independent shop on the western road is forced to close down due to this stupidity. Then there will be no reason to stop there at all. The only thing that will survive is all the crap fast food outlets so that’s going to be really lovely road to walk down. I cannot believe the blind stupidity of this decision. I’ve lived here for 15 years and there is no major problem on this stretch of road. Sure there are crap drives and law breakers but you really think this will stop them? All you will achieve is destroying the hard working lives of independent traders. Well done you idiots.
Maybe this is a bit nihilistic, but there is little to no reason for brick and mortar shops as is, with online shopping been decimating the high street for years now, and accelerated by the pandemic lockdowns.
Would someone be so kind as to let me know why I’m unable to respond to Benjamin’s comment? He mentioned that he believes the days of physical purchase is over. There is no ‘reply’ option?
There is room for both Benjamin. Such a bland and depressing perspective. Where’s your sense of entrepreneurial spirit? No more delis selling delicious, fresh, interesting food. No more independent bakeries either, just go to the supermarket and buy something cheaper and lower quality. Need to see, feel or try something before you buy it? Clothes, shoes, furniture, mattresses, plants, tools, bikes, musical instruments etc.. all examples where being able to see and handle the product matters. But no, small independent shops must close because you can park outside a huge superstore or simply order everything online.
When these businesses disappear, we lose so much more than “brick & mortar” shops, we lose character, choice, craftsmanship and the sense of community that makes our shopping streets interesting, fun and worth visiting.
Hey Peter, it’s a limitation of the website, you can only go so deep into a thread, at which point you have to reply to a previous level for it to appear beneath the latest, like this.
I agree, there should be room for both, it’s was a bit of a nihilistic take from me. And all those elements you describe absolutely do not translate well to the online space, although it is getting better. Take trying clothes for example, much easier to try and return then it ever has been.
And you’re absolutely right, there’s fun to be had going out shopping!
Get this red route in place as soon as possible please. It will improve safety by increasing visibility, a sounder surface on the pavements by repairing the damage caused by parking and negate the necessity to access the carriageway to get passed the pavement blockers. Remember that the majority of these vehicles should not be parked there anyway. It is very difficult for disabled and blue badge holders to access the businesses as it is. The red route will improve the situation. The status quo cannot be be maintained as it doesn’t work. The traders have only themselves to blame imo.
So your solution is to ban disabled cars from the street to help disabled drivers access businesses. As for not meant to be being there loading and unloading are legal on double yellow lines and blue badge holders can also park on them for up to three hours so your arguments don’t stack up.
Contrary to your assertions, I stated “the majority” not “all.” Loading bays & disabled parking spaces are catered for. Cars don’t spend money, people do and access to businesses for diasabled people will be easier & safer. I say this from the perspective of a customer of several places in the area who has mobility issues & is a blue-badge holder! I am afraid it is your protestations that ring hollow.
This is simply not correct. Many suppliers have said that due to health and safety legislation they simply will not be able to ask their staff to deliver to these shops under the plans. The loading bay arrangements are simply shockingly awful. Disabled bays have not been catered for. People that qualify automatically for blue badges need kerbside access which is thousands of people in the city . 4 disabled bays on over a km of road is not adequate. Currently they can park for up to 3 hours anywhere on this stretch.
You don’t speak for the “majority” Ann. Plus why do you seek to victim blame local businesses for trying to survive? Who are you to punish them even further as if a navigating a cost of living crisis and higher taxes and overheads was not bad enough? They also have to compete with large retail sheds down the road offering FREE parking. What you are advocating will end up being a ghost town of empty units.
“Cars don’t spend money, people do” deliberately misses the point. If you remove parking from a shopping street, you’re potentially making it harder for many people to get there and spend their money. Public transport isn’t always a realistic alternative, particularly for people carrying shopping, buying bulky items, tools, travelling with children etc.
The car may not spend the money, but of course, access to the shops absolutely can affect whether people choose to spend it there.
The real ‘problem’ here is that the vast majority of people don’t stop for long enough to get a ticket. Sadly, that’s the reality – not enough money being generated for the council.
Technically, an illegal stop is an illegal stop, unfortunately the observation period does create an absurdity in enforcement, and a loophole that is often abused. A RR prevents that by being enforced immediately.
Interestingly, a lot of research I’ve read up over the last couple of months, ever since the first RR, says that there is neutral to no impact on business footfall. I find that interesting, because that’s the core argument I’ve been frequently been reading here. Why is that, do you think?
Again, no ‘reply’ option to Benjamin’s question to me? Does this mean he doesn’t know that I replied?
Red routes remove convenient parking. It depends on the area, but this is obviously an area where many people stop their cars to buy and/or pick up. Without designated parking strips, it will of course affect local businesses negatively.
But, as you’ve already mentioned in this thread, you don’t really care.. right? Because the days of “bricks & mortar shops” is over?
People are in cars, cars don’t drive around on their own. Without my carers car I wouldn’t be able to get anywhere. Why don’t people get this, it is a real thing that people can’t walk or get around, why the dislike or worse on here sometimes.
We’ve heard similar bizarre logic from Cllr Muten. Preventing the disabled from parking directly directly outside a shop or business is apparently supposed to benefit the disabled in some way.
When actually there should be 1 hour parking bays all along to support local shops. And what about maintenance and deliveries? You can’t have scaffolders walking hundreds of yards with their scaffolding poles for example.
Cllr Muten has publicly assured everyone that the Cabinet vote on the Red Route on 17th September won’t be whipped, so let’s see what happens.
>We’ve heard similar bizarre logic from Cllr Muten. Preventing the disabled from parking directly directly outside a shop or business is apparently supposed to benefit the disabled in some way.
If a disabled person parks half on the pavement on Western Road (a common occurrence) then that particular disabled person can saunter around their chosen shop and no other disabled people can get through. Other people’s journeys are also negatively impacted. Hope this helps.
Able bodied people can walk around a disabled car and it is not something most people give a seconds thought about having to having to do to help someone that may be in a wheelchair. Please don’t forget one day this will most probably be you or I if we live long enough.
Where has the need for thousands of scaffolders each day suddenly come from. Your telling me a scaffolding truck isn’t going to delight in blocking a side street. Laughable argument.
Councillor Czolak is right there is illegal parking on Western Road as there is on many roads. Nobody is defending it.
So the disagreement is not about whether this happens. It is about whether a red route remedy has been evidenced, and about what it takes away from everybody else.
What has never been published is why more effective enforcement measures of which there are many are insufficient, or why a camera-enforced ban on all stopping — for deliveries, carers, taxis and Blue Badge holders alike — is the proportionate answer to it. A Red Route does not only stop the badly parked car. It stops the supermarket pallet being unloaded, the carer’s five minutes and the taxi waiting for a passenger who is slow getting in.
Nor has the council settled on why it is doing this. The equality impact assessment gives the objectives as congestion, safety, carbon and air quality. Bus reliability does not appear. The June decision and this month’s report put buses first. The April press release and the council’s news item of 26 June told residents Western Road would be “a safer place to shop”. This week’s report then confirms that the collision data does not identify incidents attributable to vehicles loading or stopping at the kerbside — which is the only thing a Red Route prohibits that a double yellow line does not. Police road safety data also shows Western Road’s injury collisions falling by half across the last three years
On air quality, no assessment for this scheme has been produced to us. The council’s own 2025 Air Quality Annual Status Report records that roadside nitrogen dioxide at the Lewes Road monitoring site “levelled” during the first year of the Red Route there, having improved markedly in the years before it. A scheme that moves delivery vehicles into narrow residential side streets does not remove that traffic from the city. It relocates it to where people live.
It is worth noting who else has now written to the council, because this is not one campaign group.
Brighton Business Improvement District wrote to Cabinet on 2 September. It is careful to say it is “not taking a position for or against the wider scheme”. It then asks the council to undertake and publish “a comprehensive economic impact assessment” of this stretch of Western Road before any final implementation, on the basis that impacts should be assessed on local conditions rather than assumptions drawn from elsewhere in the city.
The Brighton and Hove Cab Trade Association objected formally on 1 September. Its letter describes drivers feeling “trepidation” about picking up and dropping off on the existing Red Routes, bookings on those corridors being turned down, and a personal service reduced to “get in… and get out”. It considers the scheme unnecessary.
And 3,800 people signed the petition against the scheme, presented to Full Council on 23 July.
Two things have still not been done. There has been no economic impact assessment of a street built in the 1820s and 1830s with no rear servicing access. And the equality impact assessment was still in draft when the scheme was signed off in June. One resident’s own survey of the disabled bays across four days this summer found 49 of 56 unavailable, with eight locations full on every single pass. Once those bays are full, up to 88 per cent of Western Road’s shopfront frontage cannot be reached by a Blue Badge holder, because the yellow lines they rely on today are removed entirely.
The council says the scheme is not about making money, and we take that at face value. We would simply note that in July 2021, four years before any Western Road consultation, a council sub-committee approved £770,000 of enforcement staffing funded from anticipated Red Route income and 12,589 tickets were issued on other red routes. We believe Cabinet should ask how that sits alongside the assurance given this week.
In 2023 the Labour administration asked the city for its vote on a manifesto. That manifesto promised genuine consultation with residents, and committed to nothing about disabled people without disabled people. The mandate to design and implement this scheme was granted in March 2025. The consultation opened that November, seven months later with no red route as being an option on it. The equality assessment was still unfinished at sign-off.
We are not asking Labour councillors to abandon their manifesto. We are asking them to keep it.
This is also not just a question about red paint. It is a question about the order in which a council is allowed to do things. Decide first, consult second, assess never. What kind of elected councillors do we want that are making these kinds of decisions for thousands of people?
Catherine, one finds oneself very much in agreement with both the substance and spirit of your comments.
Nobody sensible is arguing that illegal parking should simply be tolerated. The question is whether this particular solution is proportionate, properly evidenced and demonstrably better than the alternatives – and whether its consequences for businesses, carers, disabled people, deliveries and residents have genuinely been understood before proceeding.
Most importantly, one should be able to explain clearly why a policy is necessary. When the justification appears to move between safety, congestion, air quality and bus reliability depending upon which document one reads, perfectly reasonable questions arise.
You and your fellow residents and traders have clearly put an enormous amount of work into engaging constructively and evidentially with this process. Whether one ultimately agrees with every conclusion or not, that deserves to be listened to rather than explained away.
Consultation may not be a referendum – as we have been reminded rather often in this city – but neither should it be theatre.
Bravo, Catherine.
As I have previously stated it just needs Traffic Wardens to be more vigilant & regularly positioned along this part of Western Rd. A red route on a non A-road in the City, will be a precedent. The end goal for an Administration that dislikes vehicles will be a near car less city centre.
OMG a near car less city centre! How awful. Reminds me of many European cities, you’ll end up with people – people! – in the streets, sitting in cafes and milling around, children playing without constant vigilance from their parents, tables and chairs in the street instead of illegally parked cars on the pavement, it’s positively dystopian. We must fight this. Cllr Lyons has my vote!
ALL businesses need deliveries and maintenance FFS. And contrary to your rose-coloured spectacles not all pedestrianised areas thrive. Many die or become graffiti-ridden drug dealing no-go areas, even in Europe. That’s why their councils focus their attentions on the prettiest ones and the public squares, hoping to distract tourists from exploring the seamier parts of town where their car-free utopia backfired.
And what if the person in a car needs one to get into the city because they can’t use the bus or walk. While you want to have a nice coffee and a biscuit somewhere, put your feet up, someone else is having a really difficult time because they need to get somewhere and theres red lines put in. The council need to think of everyone, whether you can walk or not. Have more wardens for the people illegally parking.
Surely one camera can do the work of several Enforcement Officers more cheaply, efficiently, in an unbiased manner which does not placethem in volatile situations. I would have thought that a respected Councillor would welcome these savings or are you just latching on to a campaign to garner popularity instead of actually backing what is best value for money? By the way, the road used to be the A277 & is a major arterial route. The red route will actually improve traffic flow and thus air quality, to the benefit of the wider community not just a few traders who want to park wherever they like with impunity. There is no precedent being set unless you have misunderstood the reasoning & criteria for establishing such red routes or are pandering to a vocal minority?
Why aren’t cameras allowed when there are double yellow lines but are on double red?
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Plus there are many more options to training this issue over a ridiculous red route doomed to destroy our beautiful conservation area.
Red doesn’t belong in Brunswick, only cream (yellow)
I see you ignored my reasonable challenge last time highlighting the common five minute loophole that people often employ to avoid tickets. Unfortunately, you can’t just throw more wardens at that particular problem, it doesn’t help.
Why aren’t cameras allowed for double yellow lines?
The law doesn’t allow cameras to enforce them, the rationale being that it would generate a lot of false flags. For example, camera wouldn’t be able to tell if a blue badge was correctly displayed, and that a vehicle parked on double yellows was in fact doing so legally. There’s a few more scenarios like that, does that make sense?
Benjamin, why is it that there’s a reply option to some of your comments, but not others?
Not trying to be confrontational, I’d just like to know?
Well said Cllr Lyons. it’s all about the EXTRA MONEY the Council want to rake in with a Red Route. They don’t care about local businesses and residents, let alone visitors, and how the Red Route would affect everyone already struggling in a cost of living crisis. The fact that the council are drawing up plans to Red Route the whole city says it all. It’s not about tackling ‘problem areas’ or improving bus services but about profiteering..
Don’t want to face a fine, don’t break the law, it’s quite simple, James.
I’m glad you mentioned law-breaking, Benjamin. Please draw the council’s attention to their own lawbreaking through ramping up PCNs to profiteer from residents, traders, contractors and visitors in their Red Route GOLD RUSH.. They are not allowed to profit from traffic schemes OR resident parking permits either.
‘A council may make a surplus from parking, but it cannot lawfully use its parking powers simply as a revenue-raising or profit-making scheme. The legality depends particularly on why the charges were imposed, how they were calculated, and how enforcement is operated and surplus income is used.
There is now a particularly useful 2026 High Court decision which confirms and applies the earlier parking cases.
1. Parking permits and on-street parking charges
The principal legislation is the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (“RTRA 1984”).
Under s.45 RTRA 1984, a local authority can designate on-street parking places, charge for their use and issue parking permits for a charge. The relevant statutory framework is here:
Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 – legislation.gov.uk
But that power is not a general power to tax motorists.
Section 122 is important
s.122 RTRA 1984 requires the authority, when exercising its powers, so far as practicable to secure:
the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of traffic, including pedestrians; and
suitable and adequate parking facilities on and off the highway,
while considering matters including access to premises, local amenities, air quality and public transport.
The courts have treated these as the purposes for which parking powers may be exercised.
The leading case: Djanogly
In Djanogly v Westminster City Council [2010] EWHC 1825 (Admin), [2011] RTR 9, the High Court considered Westminster’s introduction of charges for motorcycle parking.
Pitchford LJ held that s.45 is not a general revenue-raising power. Charges can legitimately be used for traffic-management purposes—for example:
managing demand for limited parking;
discouraging certain types of parking;
encouraging use of off-street parking;
reflecting periods of high demand;
achieving an appropriate balance between different users; and
covering the cost of parking and enforcement.
But the crucial principle was that a council must NOT introduce traffic or parking charges, or set their level, for the primary or secondary purpose of raising surplus revenue for the purposes listed in s.55.’
Easily rebutted, that one.
There is no evidence that BHCC has acted unlawfully in installing the red route on Western Road. The council has consistently stated that the red route was introduced to improve traffic flow, reduce congestion, enhance safety for all road users, and support reliable bus services. These are all lawful purposes under the RTRA.
Your allegation is speculative at best, and lacks any proof of unlawful intent.
It’s never law breaking when BHCC manipulate the law to suit themselves and practices lawfare on their own residents, whom they are supposed to look after and protect. Strange, that.
That’s nonsense as well, James. Personal incredibility isn’t an argument.
In the first full year, the three existing Red Routes produced 12,589 of the city’s 18,108 camera-issued fines — at seven of fifty camera locations. (Council FOI 24182437.) Readers can draw their own conclusions as to why the council chose a sledgehammer to deal with some illegally parked cars as opposed to using one of the many other less draconian measures available to them. The red route will shut shops, stop disabled people having access to the street and displace commercial traffic into residential side streets. As someone that lives in this ward I cannot express how disappointed I am with our ward councillor backing this scheme. Roll on May 2027.
Well said, Simon. Of course, almost everyone would agree with you.
It’s a shame there isn’t an upvote/downvote system for the comments here. It would be interesting to see which opinions get the most support, and perhaps help some people see how their views are being received.
BHCC Transport Dept – hates the disabled/loves cyclists
Charlie Herbert, also known as Mike Beasley. Interesting.
I don’t understand why there are no traffic wardens along that part of the road but cars parked permanetly. Can’t they be bothered to walk that far? The traffic wardens already exist, just get them to ticket that road for 12 months like central Brighton and your problem will be sorted. They are happy to cycle to the outskirts of Brighton daily to ticket people for the short time parking restrictions are in.
There is a parking issue on Western Road but a red route isn’t the answer. Just look at the damage it’s caused to Lewes and London Roads – economically catastrophic with traders and businesses either folding or letting staff go because there simply isn’t the demand anymore. The impact is not proportionate.
I live in Brunswick Place, resident for over 25 years, zero need for a Red Route.
The council has not produced any data to support its assertions regarding safety or air quality. The argument that a red route will improve congestion is spurious and without foundation. The proposed scheme is unworkable for residents, the disabled and businesses alike. The economic devastation the red routes in Lewes Road and London Road has been ignored by the council and not even considered.
Western Road has zebra crossings and traffic lights it is one of the safest least congested roads in the city. Plenty of frequent crossing points which are identified.
On the proposed map the provision of loading bays appears arbitrary and totally inadequate. This will do nothing to improve traffic flow.
At the LAT meeting on Tuesday evening it was revealed that a very high percentage of parking fine enforcement was on the existing red routes and these are simply a manifestation of the councils need to raise revenue being £460m in debt (official figure) so it’s all about money.
Traffic wardens work perfectly well and a blitz on those who park illegally would make a difference. On the five minute observation I’d suggest wardens remind motorists that if they return they will get a ticket!
I agree with you. I have never seen any particular traffic holdups on this stretch of road and there is not a lot of distance between bus stops so why would buses be expected to go any faster. This is a shopping and restaurant/cafe street not a route out of town.
The Council didn’t seem that perturbed when they lost over £3 million to a coin company a while ago so why are they pursuing this red route somewhere where it isn’t needed to recoup nowhere near that amount but ruin people’s livelihoods in the process.
As a business owner for twenty seven years on Western Road , I believe my view on what this council does is valid!
Some of the comments on here are very harsh! We all need to work together. The traffic flows very well, the buses certainly go faster than 20 mph!!
Day to day running of many small businesses on Western Road will result in closures. Look at the other red routes.
Window cleaners, rubbish and recycling collection, drop off and collection for anyone, deliveries small or very large.
Come and talk to any one of us about our genuine concerns. We are the majority of business owners who DO NOT abuse the yellow lines and are constantly outside our businesses talking to the minority of anti social parkers!!!!
This council are clearly not listening to ANY concern.
The blue badge holder at present has much, much more freedom than proposed.
Let’s be very clear….. the anti social parking will continue on a red route. The buses will still need to move around them AND the ten delivery bays and four disabled bays. The road is not being widened!! This is not about traffic flow and air quality!
Like other comments, and I say this respectfully, is that still not an argument to ensure there are loading bays of sufficient size and quantity, rather than the RR itself?
You raise an extremely good point which has been totally ignored with this scheme HSE guidance L23 sets carrying thresholds of around ten metres, twenty for wheeled equipment. A pallet cannot be walked sixty metres down a pavement across a road, and the Brewery Logistics Group and other suppliers have identified premises on this route where deliveries would stop. This is because all delivery companies cannot ask their staff to breach these guidelines if they do and they are injured there would be a criminal prosecution. Most of these businesses are delivery intensive and so need immediate front delivery access for these reasons. Additionally, some of these businesses have not just frequent deliveries but large delivery requirements with huge lorries that would not fit in these bays even if they were close enough and unoccupied which is unlikely with so many people sharing them. Additionally, some of these deliveries take a long time. If you are unloading kitchen units or deliveries to a supermarket they can take up to an hour. What happens is the delivery companies are faced with two options. Pay a fine and pass it on with admin costs or just refuse to deliver. This makes many shops simply unviable. They cannot sell the stock they want or accept deliveries. This has explained many times to the council and if you bear in mind the above and look at the plans it has simply not been considered.
To play devil’s advocate on this, a guidance is not a legal requirement. A prosecution for corporate neglect, which is what it sounds like you’re suggesting, wouldn’t apply here, it would have to be something like as not providing safe systems, training, or risk assessments; not simply because someone carried a load beyond a suggested distance.
The same HSE guidance you correctly point to encourages the use of handling aids to reduce risks, like mechanical aids, specifically “when loading bays are unavailable or distant.” – in that sense, you could argue that HSE negates a lot of comments we’ve read here about deliveries.
But, as I think we are agreed on, this still remains a solid argument for ensuring there are enough loading bays, but not one against a Red Route.
If I’m driving by to pick up a cake, and the loading bays are full with delivery drivers, tradesmen, etc. using them for essential parking, what do I do? Next time I order online, or somewhere else! Would you not agree that it will have a significant impact on local businesses? I believe you are deliberately ignoring the real problem here. There is no disruption to traffic or buses. People stop too briefly to get a ticket. Some business owners and/or their relatives park their 4x4s outside the premises all day. When the warden comes along, they move them, only to return a few minutes later.
Having a higher quantity of loading bays means people can continue parking briefly.. for free. Surely it’s clear what the real ‘problem’ here is – there’s no money in it for the council. That’s the reality.
Most window cleaners cycle now anyway. So doubtful it means you’ll have dirty windows. Good try though.
If you’ve ever caught a bus going through western road, I’m sorry but that simply isn’t true.
This mad logic that we should have to have parking wardens standing on western road like post boxes every 50 meters… This is exactly why they are red routing it.
It’s needed, get over it.
Really? Most professional window cleaning services use the filtered water system that is pumped from the vehicle…
Exactly. How does ‘Dave’ imagine the ‘cycling window cleaners’ get their water? Do they clean a couple of windows, then cycle all the way home to refill their tank before coming back? Perhaps he’s confusing them with Deliveroo riders?
Sounds like Dave might be due a window cleaner himself!
As a trader i sometimes have to pick and drop items off along western road to various estate agents and buisnesses
A red route system will clog up all side roads
around western road and mark parking for just a few minutes nearly impossible
It will cause traffic to keep a circuling motion around the tight streets
As a business owner in our 20th year, an employer a customer to all the shops in our community, a resident for 12 years, I feel the damage to this High street and this community is terrifying…. We have given so many other options of this was just about safety … there are road measures that can be put in place that do not mean a traffic warden has to wait the current 5 minutes to ticket a car … bollards on corner areas that have been noted as issues and there are only 2 …
I have asked a number of times for push button crossing at the bottom of Brunswick place as 2 of the accidents have been non stopping on a zebra crossing and both of these were not cars !! And we have 2 primary schools at the top of this road.
I have clients one of who is Joyce who are not disabled but elderly dropped off outside by her daughter me so they can use us the patisserie, get their hair done popping the book shop and actually feel like they have a sense of independence- nothing on a red route helps Joyce, Mark who had a stroke at 50 and 5 years later still has difficulty walking, I did his wedding flowers 20 years ago, he can only walk a with sticks for 20m, he often visits me and the patisserie, to buy the flowers we did for his wedding,, when we chatted about this we both cried, Because he knows he cannot and would not be able to manage with the disabled bays that are being put in, as it stands today with parking he never has a issue!! This red route will it help Mark.
The council has done no economic impact report.. we have been asking for this for 15 months .. Andy Burnham Our Prime minster stated he wants to save this high street with a very powerful speech, there’s been a lot of talking but no action!!
In my shop I had a council officer visiting with councillor Trevor Muten, and when we suggested a period of other options to see if we can limit the anti social parking – he said we just have to come at this with a blunt instrument!!!
I love and care for this community like it’s part of me, but with all the other pressures on small businesses, from the rates increases and NI and pensions this will be the nail that stops us breathing.
We should be doing everything we can to support local businesses. So mamy are closing and our town will be dead. If people can’t stop and park they will not spend money. Our local small businesses are what make our town unique and I really don’t want to see empty high streets.
The council has not produced any data to support its assertions regarding safety or air quality. The argument that a red route will improve congestion is spurious and without foundation. The proposed scheme is unworkable for residents, the disabled and businesses alike. The economic devastation the red routes in Lewes Road and London Road has been ignored by the council and not even considered.
Western Road has zebra crossings and traffic lights it is one of the safest least congested roads in the city. Plenty of frequent crossing points which are identified.
On the proposed map the provision of loading bays appears arbitrary and totally inadequate. This will do nothing to improve traffic flow.
At the LAT meeting on Tuesday evening it was revealed that a very high percentage of parking fine enforcement was on the existing red routes and these are simply a manifestation of the councils need to raise revenue being £460m in debt (official figure) so it’s all about money.
Traffic wardens work perfectly well and a blitz on those who park illegally would make a difference. On the five minute observation I’d suggest wardens remind motorists that if they return they will get a ticket!
Of course it’s all about money. I don’t know what’s worse, the sneaky council trying to convince people that it’s about anything other than raising revenue, or the few gullible people buying into it?
This red route will seriously impact local businesses and we’re so lucky on this stretch of Western Road to have wonderful local independent shops that feed into our local community. I really hope the council sees sense
I have lived locally for over 10 years and use this high street every day. Like many people here, I chose to make my home in this area because of its wonderful village feel, its independent shops and the fact that so many everyday amenities are within walking distance.
Has proper consideration been given to the people who actually live here? People have bought and rented homes here, invested in the area and built their lives around a thriving local high street. We don’t simply travel through this neighbourhood — we live in it.
The independent businesses are a huge part of what makes this area special, but many are front-loading and have no rear access. They need practical access for deliveries in order to survive. If the red route makes those businesses unviable, we risk losing them and replacing a thriving high street with empty units, shutters and boarded-up shops.
I walk here, cross this road several times a day and regularly use the buses. I simply don’t recognise the picture of a road suffering from such severe congestion that this drastic intervention is necessary. I have not experienced difficulty crossing it or significant delays when travelling by bus.
So I would ask those supporting the red route: what are you actually voting for? A slightly quicker journey through our neighbourhood, or a thriving neighbourhood worth stopping in? If the shops, chemists, florists, supermarkets and independent businesses disappear, local residents will instead have to travel further to access the very amenities currently available on our doorstep.
Surely the proportionate first step is to properly enforce the parking restrictions that already exist — including camera enforcement where legally possible — and establish whether that solves the problem before imposing a measure that could permanently change this community.
Please protect our high street. Tackle the problem without destroying what already works. What is the point of moving traffic through an area more efficiently if, in doing so, we destroy the very place people are travelling through?
How do blue badge holders access the shops in the section of Western Road from Montpelier Road to Churchill Square and Churchill Square itself?
Yet again this is another area they have been excluded from. If their disability is not a mobility issue they may be able to park on side streets on double yellows but as a rule most disabled people avoid this area. If they have a carer and a wheelchair they probably can also access Churchill Square from the car park if they can afford it. Most disabled people do not have a carer and this is why streets like Western Rd are so important. Kerbside access is critical for so many of these people.
Sadly we don’t, haven’t been able to for a long time, as well as to a number of roads or areas in Brighton
To close nearly half a mile of the city’s main transport and shopping corridor for five and a half weeks in the run up to Christmas, entailing the diversion of 700 buses a day, and then follow it up with a Red Route they knew they wouldn’t be able to get through otherwise is clearly an act of WAR against local traders and residents on behalf of a council which is legally there to serve us and act in the best interests of the city, which includes supporting local businesses and minimising disruption.
The council are WHOLLY to blame for 15 years of Western Road neglect under Labour’s watch, with a brief Green interlude, yet now they’ve suddenly decided it’s urgent to fix Western Road and the money has been found. At the very time they want to install a Red Route. What a coincidence!!!
BHCC knew darn well they wouldn’t get a Red Route through without pulling this stunt of domestic terrorism against traders because Western Road traders are much more of a community than those on London Road and Lewes Road were and had a Western Road Traders’ Association. Plus the city is now fully aware of the damage a Red Route does to trade as a result of the first scheme.
The reason that the roadworks are just a ruse was proven because they’ve obviously put their most junior transport staff on the job and hired their worst contractors, who let’s not forget vastly overran on the original Western Road improvements, closing many businesses in the process and their workmanship is already starting to crack along the stretch from Churchill Square to Waitrose. If they were serious about doing a good job which might stand a chance of lasting a couple of decades, they would have awarded the contract to FM Conway.
Ermm… Have a cup of tea, a sit down and breathe.
Your getting a new road (a lot of people would rather the cash be spent on theirs) and the main traffic corridor is being fixed after decades of nonsense parking restrictions that have never worked. Be glad you live in a city where it’s not just about how loud you can shout but what affects the majority of residents.
Go put on your big boy pants and calm down, or just move to Worthing, where traffic is even worse, you can still visit on the train.
I know people far angrier than me about the Red Route, Deano. So strap in. You might be the one who needs a spare pair of clean pants by the end of this jouney.. By the by, don’t pretend Labour fixing a road they have neglected for years is doing anyone a favour. It isn’t. And it’s not fair to punish local traders for council neglect. The question is when, how and using what quality of materials and contractor.
As a reminder, Conservatives defunded road maintenance nationally to half it’s original budget for over 14 years. Let’s make sure we are accurate about why the roads are having to be repaired to such an extent by Labour now.
We need good contractors on Western Road to rebuild it and resurface it. This is another area with heavy wear and tear mainly caused over time by the huge number of buses that use it (without any repairs done by the Council) until now it actually does need rebuilding.
The Council neglects things until they need far more done to them at far more cost than if the Council had a proper maintenance programme in place.
You know this Labour council are wreckers when they won’t listen to reason and consider chopping up the works into smaller sections to minimise disuption and economic damage, won’t consider doing half the road at a time as always used to be the case with roadworks, won’t re-schedule until the Spring to avoid the pre-Christmas period and won’t put their best contractor on the job for the best outcome. And obviously don’t want to cancel the Red Route that no trader and few residents want. We saw the same pig-headed arrogance from the Greens – just before they fell.
A red route here will spell disaster for the business on Western Rd. All the council needs to do is get the traffic wardens to do their job on the cars that park there all day. Nobody ever gets a ticket. Pulling up on the lines for 5 minutes to use the shops harms nobody yet is vital for the shops here. Some of these shops like Florian or Capsule Records are destination shops & will not survive simply on local footfall alone. There is no alternative parking in the area. As many have already said it will also cause a disaster for disabled customers as well as deliveries. The red route it totally nonsensical, a waste of council money & nail in the coffin for businesses that are already struggling in a tough financial climate.
One shall leave the merits of a red route on Western Road to those who actually live, work and shop there. My own patch is rather more East Brighton than central Brighton & Hove, and one has always considered local knowledge a rather useful qualification before pronouncing upon other people’s streets.
What does trouble me, however, is the rather elastic reasoning described here.
Safety, congestion, bus journey times, air quality, enforcement – one gets the uncomfortable impression that the destination was selected first and the most convenient argument subsequently invited aboard. We even appear to have acquired a rather precise 16.7 per cent statistic in the public pronouncements which, according to this report, has not made its way into the papers upon which Cabinet is actually being asked to decide.
One has noticed this becoming something of a habit at our Council: when one justification proves less persuasive than anticipated, another appears from behind the curtain.
I am all for sticking to one’s guns. But that requires the evidence to support them. If the facts change or undermine the original case, the grown-up response is to reconsider the policy – not simply to change the argument until one finds a rationale capable of carrying it.
Fixed minds and stubbornness do, eventually, encounter their natural limits. This is true in professional careers, in ones personal development and – as generations of politicians have discovered rather abruptly – in the number of crosses appearing beside one’s name at the ballot box.
Consistency, transparency and a willingness to change course when the evidence demands it are not signs of weakness. They are rather important characteristics of competent government.
Thine,
Lady Augusta Bracknell
It seems to me the Labour administration is deaf and blind to the strength of public outrage about this rather dubious Red Route proposal going to Cabinet on the 17th.
Add to this the road maintenance closure at the run up to Christmas for Western Road traders .
They do so at their peril.
Recent history shows us the last Greens administration became unpopular with their perceived arrogant attitude over public concerns, preferring to follow their own agenda .
And look what happened to their councillors at the last election.
As a local resident and driver living just off the western road where the changes are proposed, I strongly oppose the proposed Red Route on this section of Western Road.
I struggle to understand the justification for introducing such a restrictive measure here. This stretch of Western Road does not suffer from significant traffic congestion: traffic flows freely and, in my experience as someone who lives here and drives on the road regularly, and catches the bus, buses are not routinely delayed by queues or obstructed traffic, driving is easy. What specific problem is the Red Route intended to solve?
My greatest concern is the impact on the many independent businesses that make this part of Brighton and Hove such a vibrant and distinctive place to live. These shops, cafés and small businesses are an enormous asset to the city and should be protected and supported by the Council, not subjected to measures that make it more difficult for customers, suppliers and deliveries to access them.
Restrictions on stopping and loading could have a very real commercial impact on businesses that are already operating in a challenging economic environment. If independent businesses become unviable as a result, we risk gradually replacing the character and diversity of Western Road with larger chains that are better able to absorb the consequences. That would be an enormous loss to the local community and entirely contrary to what makes Brighton and Hove special.
I am also concerned that the financial benefits arising from enforcement may create the perception that revenue generation is being prioritised over the needs of residents and local businesses. If the Council believes this scheme is necessary, it should be able to demonstrate clearly, with evidence, the existing traffic or public transport problem on this particular stretch of Western Road, the measurable benefit the Red Route is expected to deliver, and a robust assessment of its likely economic impact on independent businesses.
As someone who actually lives here, I see a thriving, attractive and free-flowing local high street, not a road suffering from a traffic problem that warrants this level of restriction.
I therefore strongly urge the Council to reconsider this proposal. Brighton and Hove should be proud of its independent businesses and should be actively protecting the character of regency neighbourhoods such as this one. Introducing a Red Route where there is no demonstrable need risks causing significant harm while solving a problem that, on this section of Western Road, simply does not exist.
People don’t stop for long enough to get a ticket. Shop owners/relatives who do park all day can see their 4x4s from the shop and move when they see the warden, only to return a few minutes later.
It’s that simple – no money in it for the council.
Well as you live in whitehalk it would seem you are probably not familiar with the situation. Now be a good chap and worry yourself with the air B&b’s on the estate that shouldn’t be there.
The narrowing of western road and other roads are the main problem,this council perports to support businesses, but for that to happen you need people to come to your place of business, they do not like traffic( in any shape or form) delivery transport especially,,businesses to function must have stock,, and supplies this is for mainly footfall customers, but some have to use transport,,like us ,we do use our bus pass ,but if we need more than is possible to carry on public transport we need our car,,and blue badge privilege. Not to be included in every day entitlement because of this and other red route fiascos is unfair, they have got to shelve it,,,,,and them indefinitely
…..It’s all about the cash they can reap in fines..
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The condition of the road surface is the responsibility of the council and their lack of its maintenance is directly attributed to them.
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The improvements in bus travel are times minute on such a short stretch of road vs the loss of access to normal road users..
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We also need to look at who has businesses on that road and why the council is so hell-bent of causing them harm!
It’s amazing that if all the people on here that claim to be worried about the effects on local businesses, actually patronised these businesses, there would be a major expansion. This would then change the nature and character of the area. Would they then be objecting?
Under counter sales won’t get effected.
Can you repeat that in English please, Ann? Makes no sense.
Nothing wrong with Ann’s sentence. Once again, it just raises questions about your reading comprehension.
Parking anywhere near shops in the City is such a nightmare I’m amazed that any local businesses have survived. Anyone who has mobility issues is already kept away, so we might as well bring in the red route and make it a ghost town.
If you live in Brighton and Hove and pay Council Tax, you should be able to park anywhere in the city for at least two hours without having to pay any more money. Such a change would encourage people to spend more money with local businesses – it would give drivers enough time to meet friends for a coffee, collect some flowers, pick up some heavy items – things we used to be able to do without the anxiety of wondering whether we will be able to find a nearby space to park in, or have enough money to pay for the parking.
Until we have radical change such as free resident’s parking for up to two hours anywhere in the City, or free bus travel for all Council Tax payers, we will continue to see local businesses fail.
But it is great news for Amazon, Temu, etc!
Well as we have excellent, subsidised busses, why do you need a car? We managed back in the day when there wasn’t 2/3 cars per household – it was unusual to have that many in one street! There were a lot more local businesses, is that a correlation?
I want this red route as a patron of several establishments in the area, having mobility issues and being a blue badge holder. The current situation is dangerous and cannot be left as it is.
Btw some of the provisions of a red route can be an exemption for blue badge holders to pick up or drop off the holder and taxi drivers or private hire can apply for this too.
Ask a friendly traffic enforcer to do their job. Problem sorted.
You’ve been told it’s not that simple because of the observational loophole.
Its a Labour council so they are just going through the motions, then just like with central government do as they want. Whilst Milliband is leading the country nothing will change. Starmer and Burnham are just a front.
Many, feel that some, business owners park their private cars there and on the pavement all day long from the time they open until they go home. No one seems to care, if traffic wardens were there all day long issuing fines and removals that would be a strart. Even disabled drivers might get a chance to park and shop. Why are all comments on here avoiding th8s particular issue. Wouldn’t need a red route if properly managed.
Why do the council keep changing the goalposts about “why” a red route is needed? First it’s to “help the buses” then it’s about “parking enforcement”, then it’s about “air quality”. Make their mind up! Moreover each item would come from a separate finance pot, so which is it? Nor will they negotiate with or help local traders in any way including to minimise roadwork disruption which is outrageous. Yet they apparently moved mountains to help their mate at the other end of Brighton beach when he neglected to apply for listed building consent to do whatever he likes at the listed building cafe there and double his trading space.
I don’t fully understand the reasoning behind it. Whenever I’m stuck in traffic there, which is hardly ever, it’s because there are too many buses in one place at once, not because of other vehicles. And I don’t think I’ve ever been seriously delayed there anyway, perhaps by a couple of minutes or so.
There does seem to be plenty of ‘shop owners’, or friends and family of theirs, who park their 4x4s illegally for long periods. When they’re asked to move, they do, only to return a few minutes later. Other than that, it’s mostly people stopping briefly to buy/pick something up, or the occasional essential tradesman or delivery. So what exactly is the problem they’re trying to solve?
I’d say the ‘problem’ is that the council isn’t making much money from it. People stopping briefly to buy/pick up don’t have time to get a ticket. And those people I mentioned parking all day simply move their 4x4s when the warden comes along.
None of those reasons are exclusive, and if you look into RR, you’ll see all three of those are mentioned, plus a few other reasons. It can be funded from several finance pots, but any fines can only be used for ringfenced objectives.
It’s a outright lie to say that they haven’t consulted with local traders or looked at ways to minimise roadwork disruption. And as always, whataboutism isn’t a argument, that’s just fallacious ignorance. You know better than to suggest that kind of disingenuous nonsense.
I am unable to walk up and down Western Road, because of all the vehicles parked on pavements.
Because of this, I have to go and shop elsewhere.
I agree, it’s annoying. But those who park on the pavements in that area leave plenty of room to walk past, or for wheelchair access. I don’t see how it would prevent you from shopping there. I’ve noticed the cars parked on the pavements, but I’ve never found there wasn’t enough room to walk by.
And again, it’s the *same people parking on the pavements*. They’re there all day and can see their 4x4s from their shops. They simply move them when a warden arrives, then park back there again a few minutes later.
Punish them specifically using CCTV, rather than punishing *everyone* with a red route!
You need RR to enforce via ANPR CCTV. Plus, we’re soon likely to see pavement parking to become unlawful.
It’s a bit subjective of me, but I’ve seen plenty of examples where parking has left enough space for someone able-bodied, but has blocked drop kerbs, not enough width for mobility scooters, even not enough space to turn in and out of doorways as well, because that needs a bit more width than a straight line too.
I always think about it in this sense too: If pedestrians treated the road in the same way as cars treated pavements, there would be uproar. When it comes to pavements, my opinion is simple:
Roads are for cars, pavements are for people.
Succinctly put Benjamin and eminently sensible.
Get it installed as soon as possible although I do think that total closure of the road is open to debate and perhaps revised.
Oh yeah, absolutely, I think there’s probably some work that can be done to use a more phased upgrade to the road so it’s not a total closure, and maybe some consideration to overnight works to reduce the time the road is closed for too. Businesses have a very valid concern on that front.
R v Thomasson & Anor [2021] EWCA Crim 114 – An ANPR camera is not a witness.
“The ANPR camera is not an eyewitness. It is a machine that automatically generates/records data. The prosecution must therefore establish the evidential basis for the machine-generated record and, where disputed, the reliability, integrity and interpretation of that record. The camera itself cannot give evidence or be cross-examined.”
You didn’t read the whole thing again, did you? The case is about identification evidence from an E-Fit image in a criminal trial, not about ANPR cameras on Red Routes.
Which is why they have a camera operator who can testify if necessary Tracy!
If “roads are for cars” Benjamin, why do we keep seeing roads being narrowed and built out into such large junctions as to be unsafe for turning with floating bus stops, bins, planters, cycle lanes and even “pocket gardens” and statues being deliberately employed to try and obstruct traffic flow.
Deliberately impeding traffic flow and removing parking bays so that people drive round and round to find a space also contradicts any council BS about improving “air quality”
There’s a particularly nasty recent narrowing of Elm Grove where a junction was built out to a ridiculous degree, impeding buses going in opposite directions passing each other by creating a dangerous pinch point. And after we’d been told that the Hanover and Elm Grove LTN had been dropped so it appears residents were lied to about this particular traffic scheme. Let’s hope no money was pinched from the Bus improvement fund as this has done the exact opposite and fecked up the buses! Ditto Valley Gardens 3. The buses are awful now and the bus stops have been moved to the wrong places with the island interchange removed opposite St James’ Street.
Sigh, that’s a false cause, a strawman, selective cherry-picking (Like I said before, people tend to accuse others of what they themselves do), fearmongering, and a false dilemma. You’re ignoring the nuanced reality, attempting to provoke outrage rather than presenting balanced argument, and misrepresenting the actual policy goals around road development.
Maybe Snod needs to go on a diet if they cannot fit along such a wide pavement. I think the Brighton News should do enquiries as to who this person is and then do an article on the largest person on the planet.
So when did you last try to walk along Western Road, Snod? I’ve walked along it several times over the weekend and observed NO vehicles parked on the pavement. Not one. It’s a pretty wide road so there is no need to park on the pavement and other traffic including buses can easily pass. In fact the council could easily put a row of legitimate visitor 1 hour parking bays along there to support local businesses. No need for double yellows along most of it, let alone a Red Route.
I have no basis to doubt Shop’s veracity. I was in the Brunswick area on Saturday and witnessed pavement parking between Brunswick Square and The Wick. At least 4 instances and added to this was 2 vehicles that stopped on the zig-zags to drop people off. I’m aware that happens on a regular basis.
Are Snod and Benjamin in the same room with you right now, Ann?
Resorting to innuendo and smearing isn’t a good look, Tracy. Perhaps we can meet for a pleasant coffee in Brunswick when those awful obstructions have been removed to make the businesses more easily accessible?
No one is disputing the value of better traffic warden enforcement. Yesterday through accident I parked in this area illegally on a single yellow for three hours. I left the car there legally at night and forgot to move it on time. I did not receive a ticket so it is hardly vigorous there. What everyone is against is using a blunt instrument such as a red route in a street such as Western Rd which will mean for health and safety legislation reasons many suppliers will no longer deliver to these shops.It also will mean approximately 88% of the shop frontage will be in accessible to disabled people with mobility issues on an average day. There has been no council economic impact on this scheme and in spite of the huge employment this street is response for and this is simply not ok.
“88% of shop frontage inaccessible to disabled people with mobility issues?”
I don’t know where you invented that figure from but as someone with mobility issues, I find it 100% difficult to access shops because of illegal, inconsiderate pavement-parking.
Subjective observations by someone who is frequently called out for not reading articles properly and therefore the reliability of such questionable at best aside – short stop bays is a very valid request.
How are your comments not “subjective” Benjamin? You cherrypick what points you engage with all the time and conveniently ignore all others.
By using clear logic and rationale, and highlighting when it’s an opinion. In your case, you often present an extremely flawed comprehension foundation, so debating the specifics after that becomes a non sequitur more times than not – what you incorrectly perceive as cherry-picking.
Well Tracy Ward, I have tried to walk along Western Road a few times, but it was very difficult for me, as there was a lot of vehicles parked on the actual pavement, with very limited space.
This makes it very difficult for me, because of my health and disabilities (Epilepsy, Gait Disorder, Dizzy Spells, Non-Epileptic Attack Disorder).
So why can’t people go into the shops if there is a red route? So they may have to walk a few metres, is that so difficult? I’m one of the hated cyclists of this city and that is one of the most dangerous parts of town. I’ve never been sure why cycling is so badly thought of by so many in this liberal city; no fossil fuels, no noise pollution.
It’s come to our attention there’s been a significant amount of sockpuppeting on this thread. We have identified that comments by the following posters have all been posted by the same person:
Jane P
Janet
Jane T
Simon G