A business owner warned last night that if a red route is approved in Western Road, traders would take the council to court.
Alastair Gourlay, who runs the Real Patisserie, said that traders had mustered the resources to take Brighton and Hove City Council to the High Court for a judicial review.
Mr Gourlay said that they had taken legal advice because they believed that a red route – where stopping is banned other than in marked bays – would put their livelihoods on the line.
The changes would also make it harder for blue badge holders and others with disabilities to use shops and services in Western Road including one of the busiest doctors’ surgeries in Brighton and Hove.
Another speaker at the same meeting, James Rock, cited 10 examples of the harm done to retailers in London Road and Lewes Road, both A roads, since they became red routes.
His examples included the closure of a butcher’s shop, and the butcher’s personal bankruptcy, and the closure of Taj and WH Smith and the pending closure of the British Heart Foundation (BHF) furniture shop.
Mr Rock said that the BHF shop’s profits had plummeted and the store manager was being made redundant while others who were loading or unloading in the marked bays were repeatedly ticketed.
Mr Gourlay and Mr Rock spoke out last night (Tuesday 8 September) when they were among several who urged the council’s cabinet to explore other ways to deal with anti-social parking along Western Road.
At a public meeting at the Cornerstone Community Centre, in Hove, both men criticised anti-social parking – as did several other business owners present who denied claims that traders were behind the problem.
Parking rules in Western Road, a key bus route as well as shopping street, are enforced by wardens known as “civil enforcement officers” but traders said that they were rarely seen there.
Labour councillor Trevor Muten disagreed and said that he had even seen one issuing a ticket in Western Road on his way to the meeting, at the Cornerstone Community Centre, in Hove.
Councillor Muten said that if the council brought in a red route, it could enforce parking rules and issue parking tickets – known as “penalty charge notices” – by camera.
This would not be possible if Western Road kept its double yellow lines which restrict “waiting” but permit drivers to pick people up and drop them off and, unless prohibited, permit loading and unloading.
One resident said: “Why don’t you use the powers that you already have (to tackle anti-social parking_. Putting a red route in is a very pernicious way of doing it.
“We rarely see any parking wardens along here. You want the red route because of the money.”
Councillor Muten accepted that the red routes had brought a spike in income from camera-generated fines in London Road and Lewes Road after they became red routes.
But he denied that this was why the council wanted to turn the western part of Western Road into a red route too.
He said: “The definition of a red route that works is one where there are no fines.”
The council has previously said that a red route would speed up bus journey times, make shops easier to access and improve safety.
One business owner said later that the council had yet to provide any evidence of even one accident or injury linked to businesses or their customers or suppliers loading or unloading in Western Road.
Another trader, Carrie Cox, of Florian, the florist, read out words spoken by Andy Burnham, the Prime Minister, when he was campaigning during the Makerfield by-election in June.
Mr Burnham said: “Our high streets matter to me because they matter to the people who live here. I want to make sure that these family-owned businesses, as the heart and soul of this country, are protected and given the chance to thrive.”
She asked for the Labour Prime Minister’s approach to be adopted and urged the council to listen to the strength of feeling on the proposed Western Road red route.
Conservative councillor Alistair McNair, who used to live just off the Hove end of Western Road, said that his party colleagues “wholeheartedly support this campaign”.
He said: “The shops in Western Road are manna from Heaven. Without Western Road, what is Brighton and Hove?”
Councillor McNair said that a red route would harm trade, adding: “The shops will disappear and they will not come back. It’s a fragile ecosystem and it’s a precious ecosystem.”
He also said that the proposed scheme did not include enough bays for people with disabilities and those with a blue badge.
Other traders said that deliveries could only be made to and from the front of premises, causing concern not only to cafés and restaurant owners but also to those who dealt with big or heavy stock or high volumes.
With yellow lines, it was possible to receive and send out deliveries legitimately and legally. This would be much harder along a red route with a limited number of loading bays.
The council’s cabinet is due to decide whether to go ahead with the proposed red route at a meeting at Hove Town Hall at 10.30am on Thursday 17 September. The meeting is scheduled to be webcast.
Looks like all the barber shop, vape store and unhygienic looking restaurant owners who are the people you see constantly checking on their illegally parked cars didn’t bother to show up, now there’s a surprise. Feel sorry for the honest traders
I feel sorry for the thousands of disabled people that will be excluded from Western Rd just so the council can fine motorists some more. Just another tax on the hard working trying to survive. Cabinet will need to hold their heads in shame if this Red Route gets passed next week. Bizarre they wish to have a high profile legal fight with thousands of residents, business and traders so close to the May elections. Good for the traders and these residents that at last they are making a stand against this car fine money grabbing council.
I have mobility issues and am excluded by the current arrangements. I say bring on the red route tomorrow and get it done. I am not alone in this respect.
Ann, you are a voice in the wilderness of the disabled community asking for a Red Route, I can assure you. Because disabled people are obviously very rich and can afford daily fines on a Red Route for stopping where they need to.
Oh, in that case, we should continue with Red Routes then, since it isn’t a worry. Still not an argument against Red Routes.
What about the thousands that go by bus because they can’t afford a car but are constantly delayed because of a few selfish car driver parked badly. Nahhh they don’t matter because they clearly don’t feel the need to start pointless petitions
So a working red route according to Trevor Muten is one in which no one gets a fine. So there were 18,108 CCTV‑enforced PCNs across the city in 2025/26, of which 12,589 came from the three existing Red Route corridors according to to a recent FOI. So by his definition if this wasn’t about raising money other red routes aren’t working so no more should be installed.
. Western Rd is a longer route than any of the other red routes I wonder what the calculations are for fine revenue from Western Rd? Anyone think this feels like just another Labour tax!
But obviously, monies would not be collected if parking regulations were adhered to. So if money is collected to that extent on a red route, imagine the extent of disregard for traffic regulations. If you don’t want to fund the council, don’t commit the offense.
The long term parkers on western road are the middle eastern business owners. They move.arpund the corner or become aggressive to any enforcement when they come along. If you really don’t want a red route then get the police down there.
Classic Labour – blind to the mechanics of a modernness western economy where businesses generate the returns that they so enjoy spending..
Absolute heroes these local business owners. But since when did local businesses have to fight the council to have deliveries and earn a living without their customers getting fined for visiting, while being tortured for weeks by a complete road closure at their busiest time of year and for no compensation? This is such extreme and outrageous conduct from our public servants. Who let the bloody road get into such a state and why can’t it be fixed in much shorter, less disruptive, stretches? Who cares if it takes a bit longer as long as it’s less disruptive to traffic, deliveries and parking? The officers from the Council seemed pretty junior to be in charge of what could easily turn into an utter calamity. Let’s hope they are planning to put a block on all parking permit fines for the displaced parking for a one mile radius when hundreds of parking bays are suddenly unavailable that residents have paid for.
As my dear old grandad used to say ‘Stand for something or fall for anything’. There isn’t going to be any Red Route here because they are in council posts to serve us, not themselves.
The 45 day closure to fix Western Road will bring utter chaos to all businesses and local communities. Displacement of traffic will give us an idea how awful this red route will be!
This road has been abandoned and now they are using the excuse of emergency work to start the decline in this wonderful area!
Please help us to challenge this heavy handed approach to anti social parking (by the minority) , that could destroy the future of the majority!
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/no-to-red-route
Red Route supporter! I live 20 metres from a western Road and I strongly welcome the Red Route. It’s the same offenders everyday parking on yellow lines, often making junctions very difficult to pull out from there simply could never be enough traffic wardens to police the entire length of Western Road, where the double yellows are ignored by hundreds. The road is also in a very poor state, and in glad they’re taking action. The people that comment on here are so anti-progress, and are the reason why other projects (I.e The King Alfred) have taken to long to replace. Bring on progress! Will be safer and a nicer shopping experience. People enter shops on their feet, stop being lazy.
London Road and Lewes Road have become hostile business experiences off limits to most disabled people of whom there are ten percent registered in Brighton and Hove and traders who haven’t yet closed down report an averge 30 percent loss in takings.
You are talking out of your hat if you think Red Routes benefit businesses or residents. Shopping areas are supposed to be accessible and welcoming with easy parking. Don’t forget that supermarkets have FREE and plentiful parking so most other traders are competing against this unfair advantage in the internet age. Talking of the internet age, Red Routes will equally prevent Amazon and Ocado deliveries getting to those too lazy to support their local shops and traders and they’ll be slapped with automatic PCNs the same as any other vehicle.
This Red Route plan is nothing short of satanic in a cost of living crisis where reasonable people would expect council support in a crisis. Moreover they will continue this evil plan to Red Route the entire city if it is not stopped before any further damage is done.
If you happened to visit London Road, you would note that it is full of disabled shoppers, so you are talking out of your hat on this one.
Bring on this red route as soon as possible.
Luke I would seriously suggest you speak to the traders. Many are saying openly they cannot survive this. Boarded up shops will mean the area will just go downhill quickly and no one wants a shopping experience like this Just look at the state of Western Rd from Montpelier Rd to Churchill square to see how dreadful it looks now compared to a few years ago. There are far fewer useful or nice shops there now. Additionally, without doubt there will be displaced traffic off Western Rd so being 20m off Western Rd how on earth do you expect the council to enforce anti-social parking there when it moves if they can’t even be bothered to do this on an easy to patrol straight high street. Some poor kid got knocked down by a displaced van off the Lewes Rd red route.
We live just off Western Road and regularly drive, walk, and cycle it. 100% totally in support of the red route on account of all the awful fly parking that’s going on. If the people in the shops are so against the changes then they need to band together and stop each other parking in everyone’s bloody way
I hope they replace some of the wonderful old paving slabs that are being destroyed by motorists.
I’m a very local resident of 25 years. Councillors have quoted congestion and pollution as the reasons for this ludicrous scheme. If you know the area (unlike the other red routes in our city that did have a problem) there is no congestion and thus a red route will not change pollution.
They say that there is ‘antisocial parking’, but all it takes is for the council to do its job and issue tickets to reduce it. So instead they go for a money grabbing exercise in camera issued fines.
It is certainly going to push some of our local businesses out of business… that’s happening in the other red routes.
This part of Western Road is not even a main arterial road nowadays, once they put a red route in here, mark my words, they will push for them all over our city.
If you dig a little deeper, there is some real underhand and sinister tactics being used by the council to force this through. Not releasing information, hiding statistics, ignoring evidence and more.
If this goes ahead, it will be the most ignorant pernicious act of the council I have witnessed.
This part of our city is really community based and will be changed forever for the worse for no good reason whatsoever. Please lobby the council before the meeting where they are minded to rubber stamp this.
There’s definitely congestion there. Not all the time, but it does exist.
Have you seen the wardens trying to issue the tickets though? The shop owners all dart out and move the cars. Currently so many of them are taking the p*ss to such an extent it’s unenforceable, hence the need for the change. Will the community really change that much if the shop owners have to park elsewhere? I really don’t see that many people parking up and going in to buy stuff
Certain shop owners. The Council must know who they are so why not deal with the ones that are causing the problem and not punish others who aren’t. Where will the bus stops be when the road is being repaired?
Just for a bit of balance, both Taj and the BHF on London Road had loading bays directly outside their stores following the introduction of the red route. Neither had allocated parking spaces before the red route. The other BHF (non furniture store) continues to operate on London Road and always seems busy with footfall whatever the day of the week. Taj on Western Road, just like the former London Road store seems to have had diminished supplies over a long period of time, which haven’t been replenished (not sure why).
WH Smith was taken over by TG Jones and it’s closure tied in on with the country wide closures of other stores, not because of the red route.
As for the butchers shop, I haven’t got a clue, but wish him all the best.
Butchers are one of those professions where it is really difficult to turn a profit. Tend to get squeezed heavily by supermarkets. Same story for the original fishmongers and greengrocers.
All kinds of business are affected and if this was a case of a natural demise of one shop we would not be mentioning them or making these assumptions. What we have seen is these businesses have taken a sharp dip in takings as soon as the red route went in as opposed to a gradual demise. This has been coupled with extra issues such as fines for their delivery drivers, suppliers refusing to deliver and service businesses refusing to work near there. Locksmiths, cab drivers, plumbers, electricians etc just refuse jobs or pile on fine costs now to work in these areas. One window cleaner found the bailiffs at the door after being given £1,500 fines. Staff are being asked to unload breaking health and safety regs from residential side streets to avoid fines. These are not isolated cases these are the types of stories we are hearing from so many people that have had any experience of these schemes and we have spoken to a lot of businesses and people serving these businesses This is not even counting the other losers from these schemes such as disabled people. Lastly Benjamin councillors are elected to serve their constituents. What kind of council is this? We have elected councillors that are just wilfully ignoring the overwhelming viewpoint of their constituents. Do we really want to live in a city where we have councillors like this? This is a really serious issue. And at the end of the day for what benefit. To speed up buses by what? 30 seconds, a minute, two? Really? Is this credible? If this was even the case there are easier and less devastating ways to do this. or is it about the 12,589 camera fines a year at the expense of disabled people, traders and residents? You can make your own assumptions….
I am intrigued to know which health and safety regulations you claim are restricting deliveries. Or is it just more nonsense you have invented?
If you park illegally and accumulate £1500 worth of parking fines then don’t pay them, I say well done to the enforcement team for looking after the public coffers. Another red herring in your statement.
I have mobility issues and am a blue badge holder yet I cannot get along parts of this road without going into the carriageway. Now that is certainly a safety concern. The reason is the selfish, ignorant miscreants who park on the footpath and damage the slabs. They often park for long periods of time and quite a few of them are the business owners.
Bring on this red route as soon as possible and improve the area.
My driving instructor, who happens to lead the Green Party in Brighton these days famously said these words to this effect, and they have stuck with me:
“Assume everyone on the road is an idiot who doesn’t know how to drive, until they confirm they don’t know.”
12,589 camera fines a year seem to suggest he was right, right? If you stop in a red zone, despite clear warnings and signage, that’s their problem. And either way, if the challenge is “there’s not enough places to park”, that’s an argument for more loading bays, and tighter enforcement on loading bays, rather than the Red Route itself, right?
Why would we want traffic speeding up on this stretch of road? It will make it more dangerous for pedestrians especially with speeding e bikes let alone cars.
Traffic isn’t going to speed up, there’s a speed limit and traffic calming measures, not to mention a lot of us with Dashcams feeding into Operation Crackdown.
That could explain the loss of the fishmongers at the bottom end of the Open Market.
I understand that the owner sadly passed away.
Loading bays don’t work. Customers and delivery drivers frequently get tickets in them. Even liveried cabs that have an exemption get ticketed as we have seen from the taxi association that have formally objected to the western rd scheme. This means that customers refuse to unload or collect goods from these shops. Suppliers also refuse to deliver. We have been flooded with documented cases of this. Also, bays are shared with multiple shops and all kids of people that need to use them. Regarding these businesses there is long list which is growing all the time and there were many many businesses on it. There are a lot of them.
Sounds like they weren’t using the bays properly? Otherwise, you would have said they got tickets and frequently successfully appealed them?
What if someone wants to get a taxi to the Doctors say or any other shop? Will the taxi get fined?
GPs tend to have parking bays dedicated for them, if they don’t, that’s a really good improvement to the design, and one that absolutely should happen, in my opinion. For other shops, that’s why it is important to ensure enough loading bays.
And Taxis, my experience of them have been they aren’t the best drivers on the road, usually a mix of skill fade and bad habits. Unfortunately, this bad habit on leads to an immediate fine. I saw one stopping on Reds to pick up a passenger, blocking visibility of a Zebra this week – there was a loading bay on the other side of the road they could have used.
Spot on, Taj on London road ran down supplies for weeks before closing and always denied the obvious.
It was never as big as Taj on Western Road which has been an icon but it’s right by the traffic lights so you can’t park there anyway. In 27 years I’ve never needed to park on either road
There is so much bad science involved in this article. Many of the businesses that have left London Rd were already earmarked for such and for reasons not related to the red route.
There has been no evidence provided that businesses will close on Western Road as Cllr McNair scaremongers about. He implies the road will shut which is complete rubbish.
I use the buses along Western Road on a daily basis and it is often slowed by having to weave along the road due to illegal parking in key places. Brighton’s economy is largely sustained by tourism and if people can’t navigate the city due to congestion, we all suffer.
Traders on Western Rd are categoric that some of these businesses are at risk so Alistair McNair is definitely not scaremongering. A few have businesses on other red routes and they have accountancy data to show sharp and instant drops in revenue. Also many are well connected with other traders on other red routes. You are also assuming that they are not already under pressure. Of course they are and a well run council would be thinking about what can we do to support them. Perhaps single yellow lies at night to help the night time economy. Free pavement licences. Promoting them somehow. This council just thinks of new ways all the time to make their lives harder. Enough is enough and if we want to live in a city where the council only cares about camera fine revenue (unless we really think it is to save a minute off a bus journey) then that is ok but if not it is time to say enough is enough.
Alistair McNair is definitely scaremongering, it’s hard-coded into everything he says at council alongside attempting to political point-score.
I’ve never noticed buses being impeded on Western Road. Why would you want them to go even faster than they do in such a built up area?
I’m not really sure what a Judicial Review would achieve here, since there’s no irregularity, appropriate consultation, impact assessments etc.
You can’t claim ultra vires, it’s funding was via central. Even targeting equality – the strongest part of this – is fairly weak, because that’s just an argument for ensuring enough bays are included.
For business-minded people, this feels like a waste of money.
I am sure Benjamin if there is no case it won’t go to JR. With respect though I doubt you have seen the evidence on either side.
As for a waste of money surely if there is any chance of success as a city we should do everything we can to try and stop this scheme. What kind of city do we want to live in when we just ignore pleas from disabled people and shop keepers worried about in some cases losing their businesses or from residents that don’t want to lose the shops they love or have to live in streets filled with displaced commercial traffic.
One of the largest petitions ever raised to council said no red route. So far citizens have never been given no red route as an option and our councillors were not elected on doing this in their manifesto. One thing I do know is this campaign is not going away. It is going to go on and on and on and get louder and louder and louder as we have nothing to lose by trying to stop this scheme and everything in many cases to lose if we don’t.
Here is a plea directly from a disabled frequent user of this area:
GET THIS RED ROUTE INSTALLED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
Ann, I can tell you that no genuinely disabled person would say that.
1. Because most disabled individuals have no idea how much more disabled they may become, even if they are fairly mobile/independent at this point in time and can still get around reasonably well.
2. Because disabled people CARE about the wider disabled community and recognised that disabilities come in many shapes, forms and severities. An elderly parent who cannot walk more than 20 metres at a time with advanced dementia for example. Where is their carer/relative supposed to park to take them to a local shop or cafe in the Western Road area without getting a parking fine? Even just for an hour? Many disabled spaces have been removed or are now too far away. Preserving as much daily normality and stimulation as possible for these individuals is actually crucial in slowing down their decline and further cost to the state. Many carers are already unpaid and mentally stressed and do not need parking fines to add to their stress load and financial survival worries.
You sound like you have about as much empathy for disabled residents and businesses as the council.
Tracy, I would be grateful if you could furnish me with your medical qualifications and details of your research. My consultants and indeed the wider medical world would be intrigued.
The local authority’s and DWP advisors could adopt your attitude in order to revolutionise their systems and assessments.
Perhaps it was the Trump snake-oil school that you obtained your diploma from?
You’ve made that argument before Tracy, it’s an argument for more benches to rest at – not against a Red Route. Plus, your example highlights your lack of understanding around Red Routes, because otherwise you’d know your example does not work because this is a provision for Blue Badge holders.
I wonder if it will endure like you say. I look at other such heated campaigns fizzle out by the dozen. Even the previous Red Route installations have followed the same pattern. You make a good point, there’s no harm in trying…might be an expensive attempt considering lawyers these days though! Guess the value comes from the outcome, right?
Interesting that you mention the size of the petition, because the size of the petition for better road management and red routes was criticised by similar voices when it was vice versa.
Either way, for me, it will be an interesting read regardless. Plenty of discord on this subject!
You keep living in that bubble of yours Benjamin TM. The rest of us live in the real world where what the council does has real life consequences for real people trying to earn real livings doing real work.
Yes, I will continue to live in this bubble where I make a sound argument using logic and reason, and you have nothing other than insults to throw at anyone who thinks differently to your woefully poorly informed and low-quality performative rhetoric.
In the meanwhile, argumentum ad hominem means nothing to me, it’s a poor tool of a person who can’t make a logical argument back due to capability or ignorance. It’s a tool you seem to employ often.
The problem with this whole debate is no one – the business owners nor the Council, have seemed to provide any evidence to support whether red routes impact businesses positively or negatively.
Without anything solid, the argument has just consistently devolved into what each side reckons based on their ideology – business leaning or traffic management leaning.
While I’m in support of preventing the illegal parking, I dont think the council has handled their pitch well.
At the meeting last night the ‘we’re doing Red Routes for your safety’ argument was spectacularly demolished .
Save for the 700 buses a day (Do we really need that many buses? Have officers made a study of the estimated road damage per 100 buses per day?) on Western Road shaving a few minutes off their journeys, it seems to leave precious few reasons for the Red Route other than easy money from Big Brother camera fines. The Lewes Road and London Road Red Route fine numbers support this assertion.
Are the Labour Cabinet Members being whipped for the crucial vote next week?
There is so much anti-Council feeling about this one issue, palpably demonstrated in the packed and passionate room last night, this Administration could be signing their own political death warrant for the 2027 elections.
As the residents’ protest song says: “Red, Red Line. No! No! No!”
It’s mainly the buses that have caused so much damage to Western Road and the Council’s neglect in repairing it for so long means it now has to be rebuilt!
So you arrive at your destination and all the loading bays are occupied with parked cars with no visual evidence of any loading. What do you do? Stop illegally and load anyway or drive away and tell customer delivery attempt failed. Re-book and pay for another delivery. Nobody can answer this question.
Surely with all the business owners in such unison, a delivery rota could be implemented? Just saying in the spirit of co-operation.
Ann. You really think all traders share the same suppliers and can control when their lorries are able to arrive in Brighton and Hove to deliver when they are delivering to multiple towns and cities around the country on their schedule? Brighton and Hove is just one drop off point! You think each lorry driver has the luxury of a whole day to mess about trying to deliver to Brighton and Hove? Threat of non-delivery is yet another risk which needs to be mitigated, but maybe you will only notice when your Tesco express has empty shelves! You sound as off-planet as Benjamin.
Still not an argument against Red Routes, but better delivery planning.
What’s to stop BHCC refusing to re-open Western Road after the works and holding the residents and businesses to ransom until they agree to the Red Route being imposed? There needs to be a legal warning to the council that they can’t bully our local businesses and residents because bullying rather than serving seems to be this Labour council’s MO nowadays. I bet the only reason they have closed such a long stretch for 45 days and put their slowest contractor on the job is to have everyone so frazzled and desperate we will agree to anything by then. It seems too convenient that suddenly these works can’t wait another few months longer, having waiting 20 years or so already. Surely there is is no reason on earth these works couldn’t be postponed until the Spring, when the Christmas season is over and the worst of the winter weather. Or chopped up into much smaller sections causing less major disruption and displacement. Do we even have an undertaking that there will be no road closures on the seafront, or any of the other diversions people will need to use while Western Road is closed? The pair of graduates in scruffy jeans explaining the project did not inspire confidence either. Are they really what passes for Senior Transport Planning Officers at the council? Were they involved in the previous Western Road “improvement” balls up? We never did get a final figure for those works and all the repairs they necessitated by over heavy vehicles destroying the roads and cellars of the diversion routes they were too heavy for. No one I know has noticed any “improvements” either. Narrowing the road to prevent buses overtaking each other to keep to timetable did not improve the bus service. Nor did removing Clarence Square bus stop.
The only bullying here seems to come from the traders and a minority of residents. The majority of the residents are ambivalent to the red route and the traders just want to park anywhere with impunity and scant regard to others. I do sympathise with the road closure but it would appear entirely necessary. I just hope that pedestrian access is maintained and the historic slabs that have been damaged by the inconsiderate parkers, are reinstated. I hope that any utility works that are upcoming are incorporated into the schedule but given BHCC’s track record, I am not overly optimistic.
As Benjamin has iterated, there does not appear to be a prima facie case for an application for judicial review. If AJR was allowed for every decision that we disagreed with, the Courts would be more backed-up than they are already and it would make governance impossible.
Are you honestly suggesting that the traders and residents are “bullying” the council!? Ha ha.
And that you aren’t aware that the council are public servants, not our masters?
I’ll try and keep it simple for you: We pay their wages to serve us, not to shaft us.
The majority of residents and traders have been kept IGNORANT of the Western Road Red Route and its consequences. A completely different thing. Most of those who know about the Red Route only know about it through Ms Lane’s tireless protest group, not our caring, sharing, council consulting us all with letters as is their legal duty. Yet they have no problem sending out yearly Council Tax demands, do they?
If the council want to be popular, they need to serve us, not harm us. Or they will be increasingly unpopular.
I point out your posts above which are tantamount to bullying. You questioning my abilities and capabilities on a public forum is not relevant. Your sneering attitude is nothing new. However I have thick skin and can push back against it, like I have done for a number of years.
Councillors are not “servants” but publicly-elected officials who represent their wards and more broadly, the wider community. Part of the remit is having to make difficult decisions. This red route has been on the agenda for quite a long time but a lot of the traders just chose to ignore it and carried on parking illegally with impunity. They have presented the justification for the red route implicitly. If the Council have failed in their duties, then indeed there would be a case for AJR but this would only delay and not prevent this most welcome and needed initiative.
Ann. This pernicious plan has nothing to do with legal parking and everything to do with raking in Red Route fines. Moreover it is part of a wider plan to extend a Red Route network citywide, plans for which are currently being drawn up by the council. Not that the extra £1.17m in PCN money from the London and Lewes Road in the last 12 months is supposed to be lawfully regarded as “profit”. How much parking will remain after the Red Route? Virtually none in the cases of London and Lewes Road. And people are getting even fined for using loading bays. FOR unloading! As for disability issues, you can’t pull the wool over the eyes of a former carer. We’ve experienced the disability world and, in some cases, had to fight for our charges at ever juncture. Why do you think we feel as strongly as we do about anything which adversely affects this community? Why don’t you care? You might be able to manage your disability, whatever it happens to be, but you have no right to assume everyone else can do the same.
At the risk of sincerely answering your performative rhetoric with a reasonable answer Tracy, as it is currently designed, there will be more lawful places to park than current, because let’s remind ourselves.
It is not lawful to park on double yellow lines.
why are you so keen on this red route?
I’ve not made a stance either way, Lynne.
I’m sorry, but this Labour Council … Muten and Sankey especially … are little dictators who care nothing about the residents and businesses in Brighton and Hove.
The strength of feeling about this proposed red route is obvious, and yet they want to ignore it.
When will they realise that THEY WORK FOR US, not the other way around!
Thanks Benjamin. You have just nullified the argument for a Red Route by stating “It is not lawful to park on double yellow lines!” Though FYI, Blue badge holders can park on double yellow lines for up to three hours, and often need to. But will have that right removed by a Red Route and largely be designed out of Western Road, along with the income their custom bring to the area. Now you know why all genuine disabled people and their carers are against Red Routes.
“All genuine disabled people are against red routes” is only something you can say because as soon as a disabled person dares to disagree with you, you declare them not to be genuine!
You know full well that’s a strawman argument. You’re not that stupid, despite your best efforts.
Go along there, see how and where the clowns park even after several fines, red route it is.
May I just place on record my thanks to those of you who have defended me ( and others) from the bullying rhetoric that Tracy Ward has published on this forum. It means a lot to me. It also highlights the attitude I encounter everyday.
It is this sort of attitude that insists that the Bible is historically accurate, the Earth still flat, women have their place, smoking isn’t bad for you…….
Just saying, some changes aren’t bad!
Ann, personally, I always welcome our conversations. You look at things in a different perspective to me, and I find that so insightful and interesting. We have disagreed on things in the past, and agreed on others, and I hope we continue to do so in the future! Unfortunately, there exists a vocal minority who do feel the need to yell personal attacks at others. Take it as a positive, if all they have left is insults, you’ve successfully made your point.
Thank you for your kind words and wisdom Benjamin. I realise what a dull and boring world this would be if we all agreed all of the time. I do think that at heart, we both have the best of intentions of the wider community at heart. I am glad that we can agree to disagree with a degree of respect and conviviality.
Can you explain why you are so keen on the red route being introduced to Western Road?
I am fed up with taking my life in my hands by having to manoeuvre around cars halfway on the pavements when they shouldn’t even be parked there at all. It is often the traders themselves that are guilty. They have damaged the historic paving stones and on at least one occasion, fractured a water pipe. The escaping water has the propensity to turn into ice in colder times. This is a major arterial route for traffic, especially busses. The introduction of the red route will end the constant chicanes and the braking that can cause passengers to be thrown around. So in essence, it is down to the safety of the majority of people who are legally in the area or passing through, versus the dangerous, inconsiderate and selfish parking of a few. Allied to this is the bonus of reducing pollution and making the area more pleasant and accessible.
Last night I walked and drove the almost half a mile of intended Western Road closure for 45 days from Waitrose to The Wick Inn. It is an eye opening exercise as it is an abnormally long stretch of main thoroughfare to close at once and when the council has a duty to minimise disruption under the Road Traffic Act.
It is particularly cruel to punish the Traders for decades of mostly-Labour council neglect of this road and in the four months of their peak trading in the pre-Christmas season, rather than waiting until Spring. If any manage to survive this, the Red Route will be the final nail in their coffin deterring customers and deliveries.
This needs to be re-thought. They could at least break up the roadworks into three shorter stretches to minimised disruption and wait until next Spring for starters.
JamesK, you certainly make cogent points regarding the total road closure and timings. These are certainly points that should be evaluated and amended if possible. However, I fail to see how a red route will deter customers as at the moment they cannot park legally on Western Road and the red route will only reinforce this! From a safety perspective, a red route is needed as inconsiderate motorists selfishly park dangerously, often blocking the pavements.
A council ALSO cannot lawfully use a Red Route as a mechanism for maximising PCN revenue.
You’d never be able to prove that either way, James. They’ve stated their objectives with the RR. You can’t argue that RR are a rare function in road law, and even the discussions on places like here are strong evidence people are aware of their function. Plus any income raised goes back into road and transport, and no other purpose.
If it happens to raise a lot of revenue, that’s down to the low skill of drivers, I’m afraid.
It’s come to our attention there’s been a significant amount of sockpuppeting on this thread. We have identified that comments by the following posters have all been posted by the same person:
Tracey J
Jane T
Jack from Portslade
Jane P
Catherine L is flagging as matching too, according to my code.