A business owner has criticised advice on avoiding loading bay fines as “unrealistic” after his ticket was cancelled.
Clark Maides, of M and B Meats, successfully appealed against two fines after his van was ticketed while parked in a loading bay in London Road because it was unattended for about six minutes.
The letter cancelling his ticket included advice from Brighton and Hove City Council, saying that staff should not have a conversation during deliveries or go to the toilet.
The council introduced a “red route” in London Road in April, banning vehicles from stopping unless they were using specified bays.
The parking tickets were issued on two days in July and the council rejected the initial appeals from Mr Maides unless he provided more information.
One letter from the council said that it had reviewed six minutes and 36 seconds of footage during which a driver was seen returning to the van with “a small item” in his left hand.
The letter said: “You stated you were pushing heavy boxes from your fridge to the van. We would expect some activity to be seen within the observation time.”
The letter said that the bays were in high demand and asked for more evidence such as invoices and proof of delivery if Mr Maides wanted to take his appeal further.
Mr Maides’s appeal finally succeeded two months after the initial penalty was issued but the result came with advice.
- Items for delivery should be prepared and “ready to go” because no time could be allowed to pack, unpack or select items. Loading or unloading should start as soon as the vehicle is parked.
- Workers and delivery drivers should not carry out any activity that is not directly related to moving the items and “this includes stopping for a conversation or to visit the toilet”.
- The vehicle must leave the bay as soon as loading or unloading is complete.
- Items should be the size, weight or quantity not easily transported by one person in one trip.
Mr Maides said: “This is pretty ridiculous and nothing like the real world. If I have to collect an order that’s in a carrier bag – which can be the case with our business – where do I park for that?
“And you can’t have a conversation? It’s laughable really. Drivers that come into us have to have things signed and checked, etc.
“It’s just so unbelievably stupid. It shouldn’t be this stupid.”
Mr Maides’s fines were cancelled days after nearby Preston Road grocery shop Pamir received a loading bay fine because its driver had gone to the toilet.
Pamir’s owner Ishaq Karimi, 33, said that his delivery driver was “not a robot”.
The council’s cabinet member for transport, parking and the public realm, Trevor Muten, has previously said that if a vehicle was in a loading bay for an extended period of time and not seen to be unloading or loading then the business would receive a fine.
Councillor Muten also previously said: “Red routes are improving traffic flows, bus punctuality and air quality and reducing traffic congestion, making pedestrian and cycle access better and safer.
“We are determined to make red routes work well for everyone and, if necessary, will make further adaptions during the remainder of this six-month consultation to make this scheme a success.”
Business owners and residents affected by the red routes can submit feedback by emailing parkingprojects@brighton-hove.gov.uk before Monday 30 September.
I’m on the side of the business owner about this. For example, that conversation could be about safely loading an item, which as a reminder, is something drivers are required to do by law, as stated in the Highway Code.
Secondly, using the bathroom is basic human civility. Put a time on how long a vehicle can stay there, fair, but reasonability should be at the heart of this.
Six minutes is incredibly harsh, so I am glad this was overturned.
If you put a time limit on the bay it will be full of shop owners moaning that the got a ticket for being a min over time. There’s a massive car park 30 seconds away and plenty of side streets. Old news red route Western Road and North Street next!!!!!
Maybe Russel, but there would also be a clear definition of a reasonable timeframe, so they wouldn’t have much of a leg to stand on if they were to produce such an argument.
Secondly, some of their loads are particularly heavy, and good manual handling and safety expect people to minimise the distance they carry items to protect their bodies and minimise the risk of injuries. There is an argument to be made that once the delivery has been completed, to move the vehicle to a non-loading legal spot immediately afterwards, but, I think you really have to apply the Golden Rule to statutory interpretation here and feel about what the aim of this loading zone’s rules are: To prevent excessive long-term parking.
I would contest that six minutes does not fall into the category of excessive, and I think you’d be hard-pressed to make a strong argument to say otherwise, so seeing this overturned seems very reasonable to me.
It doesn’t say that the van was parked there for 6 & a half minutes it says that it was observed to be stationary with no sign of loading for that time. It could have been there for an hour before. The question would be what is a reasonable time for the van to be sitting there with nothing happening and what is a reasonable time for the person issuing the fine to watch it. Presumably they are looking at more than one loading bay so do they have to watch the van not moving for 6 minutes, 10 min, half an hour?
The bays are for more than one shop so if the shop down the road has a delivery and the driver then has a chat, goes to the toilet etc, how long do the butchers think is a reasonable time for someone else to be using that bay and stopping them from getting into it?
We only stop there to load and do not leave it there for any longer than we feel is necessary.
On these particular occasions we must have been unexpectedly delayed on leaving the shop for work reasons only. (Although 6minutes is not a long time especially as the loading bay is at least a 90second walk away. There and back counts for half that 6 minutes)
We just feel that common sense should be applied a little more.
I know first hand how frustrating it is to have to drive around in circles waiting for a bay so I never take longer than I absolutely need to and have tried to be even quicker since we’ve found all of this out.
It would have been better if anyone had given us this information in the first place but they didn’t (and I did ask about the rules repeatedly. No one seems to know/agree)
Out of the asylum in to the nutverse,hypocrisy is an understatement Brighton has no toilets that are a convenience, there’s plenty of inconvenience especially this blasted council,they couldn’t run a tap,dont forget where the meat market was before, hollingdean,as I worked there,council moved it,as for having a conversation that’s why we have the ability to speak,hence it’s called a mouth,there must be a gang of cretins in the town hall thinking up the most stupid ways of making money,because there not capable of financially making this ruinous city work, it’s a debtors paradise,overspent,by millions on the refurbishment of hove town hall ,refurbishment of toilets ,,just one toilet in Brighton cost£ 250,000?? There incompetent, at all levels, I feel extremely sorry for all traders that have been moved away, and into the red maybe tripe and onions ,or melts,and plucks,as a prize for being that damm daft
I was once issued a parking ticket for a van while I was delivering to a shop in London. I spoke to the warden explaining that I wasn’t “parked”, I was unloading which was legal to do. The traffic warden then said that if I was unloading I should stay with the van. I stated that it was impossible for me to take the goods into the shop without leaving the van. These people must live on a different planet. I appealed and the ticket was cancelled.
It’s all going a bit Sadiq Khan, isn’t it.
This council isn’t turning out as well as I’d hoped.