A series of painful parking ordeals has prompted a petition to reinstate parking meters in Brighton, just days after the old machines were permanently decommissioned.
Brighton and Hove City Council decommissioned its old parking meters and swapped to payment for parking by app on Thursday 1 June. To read or sign the petition, click here.
David Perris’s mother-in-law was unable to park near his home in Hanover a couple of weeks ago because she didn’t have a smartphone so couldn’t download the app.
And lack of phone signal on a trip to Stanmer Park meant that other members of his family were unable to pay for parking there last weekend.
This, teamed with experiencing frequent glitches when using the app himself, prompted Mr Perris to start his petition.
He said: “I only became aware that all Brighton and Hove parking meters had been decommissioned a couple of weeks ago when my mother-in-law was unable to park when visiting our home.
“Like many elderly people, she doesn’t own a smartphone and doesn’t trust or understand the technology well.
“I also had a problem myself, parking in Preston Park the week before when my phone was being repaired.
“I thought I’d be able to buy a ticket when I got there and, when the machine wouldn’t accept payment, I just assumed that it was out of order.
“We had further problems this weekend when a family party visited Stanmer Park. One person couldn’t get a phone signal. Another had problems with the direct phone system. Both parked without making payment and hoped for the best.
“I do use the parking app on a regular basis, normally without problems, though it can cause difficulties from time to time for various reasons.
“The app is also not glitch-free. For a system that’s supposed to be fit for purpose, I’ve experienced or witnessed quite a few problems in the last couple of weeks.
“My concern is for the still substantial number of people who can’t or don’t want to use this smartphone-dependent, cashless system with potential security issues.”
Alternative ways to pay for parking include using PayPoint outlets for a physical ticket activated in-store or calling the parking company and paying directly.
Payment machines remain in place at council car parks with barriers.
Councillors agreed to remove the pay and display machines in February this year.
The council website said that the decision would save £220,000 in 2023-24 as well as ongoing savings from no longer having to maintain, repair and replace machines, collect cash payments or go ahead with a planned upgrade to 4G technology.
The council said at the time that 78 per cent of all on-street parking transactions were already made using the pay by phone app and telephone number.
Of the 22 per cent of payments made using the machines, just 2 per cent were cash payments.
The petition runs until Wednesday 19 July. If more than 1,250 sign the petition, it will be presented to councillors on Thursday 20 July.
Clear discrimination by BHCC. What happens if you choose not to have a phone? The Council is supposed to act in the best interest of its citizens. Did they consult before making this decision? Now that the Green fruitcakes have gone, maybe the new ruling group will rethink.
If you choose to not have a phone, you are part of an absolute minority, and a diminishing group of people, according to data. One should plan ahead for one’s journey, including parking. That’s part of the signed agreement drivers all signed when they passed their driving test. Also, if you don’t have a smartphone, there are internet options, prebooking, and guest permits.
I’d be interested to know the running costs of the meters and see if it is offset by the amount earned by them though, if the data shows they fund themselves, I am more than willing to change my mind on the subject.
Wrong. And a little worrying that you so willingly dismiss a minority. In fact more people than ever are choosing not to have a smartphone. A percentage that will only increase as their harmful effects become clearer.
Sometimes I wonder if the council forget that this is supposed to be a tourist destination. Making it hard for tourists to park is odd.
I drove up to near Manchester last month. Including stops at Dunstable along the say. So nice to see parking at £1 per hour, or £2.50 all day. Just put coins in a machine and press a single button. Such clever technology.
My friend found this new system at Rottingdean. Apparently you have to register with the Council first before you can pay. It was not straightforward and she gave up. Are visitors to Brighton expected to register with the Council just so they can park.
So many of our elderly congregation cannot come to church as they do not have a smart phone. We have a community lunch club every week and again it caused problems as our volunteers can’t park nearby.
We are all very upset and distressed about the loss of parking meters.
The argument there is the church could provide a way for your congregation to pay for parking within the building; a simple tablet at the door with the app installed. For example, how it is done with Prince Regent’s parking and many other businesses. That’s one specific solution for that unique circumstance.
Given the proliferation of pay by phone or card and smartphones this transition makes perfect sense. And it mitigates risk for the council and tax payers (remember the parking company who went bust and the cash that disappeared). Seriously there are far bigger issues for the council to deal with.
Well the council risks multiple law suits as this is clear discrimination against the elderly and disabled (as well as others who don’t have a phone) but it is age and disability that appear to be the ‘protected characteristics’ under the Equality Act 2010 that are being discriminated against here. I hope Parking consulted with the council’s legal team before imposing this. I don’t recall seeing any signs warning people of this change either.
The Equality Act also requires public bodies like local councils to consider how their decisions and policies affect people with different protected characteristics. Council Parking services should have evidence, i.e. an Equality Impact Assessment, to show how it has done this.
If the council expects people with these characteristics to get a fine and then appeal it, then this is another example of discrimination.
I doubt it would be indictable under the Equality Act 2010 because it would have to be proven to specifically be targeting a protected characteristic, and the data from multiple sources actually show smartphone ownership and penetration to be overwhelming and on the increase across all demographics, Josephine.
You can also view the assessment of this decision on the BHCC website when it was first considered, so in my mind, they’ve done their due diligence, again, fulfilling their legal obligations. Disability is covered through blue badge entitlements, so is irrelevant here. Also, just because someone is old, doesn’t mean they can’t use a smartphone.
BHCC were responsible for the £3m loss. Where was their due diligence? Why didn’t their accountants and auditors pick this up?! Sheer incompetence on behalf of the Council.
Many people can’t afford a smart phone or want one.What happens to them , particularly the elderly or techno phobe ? Elimination and discrimination of people who don’t have a smart phone.
Cost is very low these days, I’ve seen one for £40, or another for £8 a month.
I’ve always found it’s cheaper to park and not pay in Brighton and get the odd parking ticket than it is ro pay. At the cost of parking in most places 17hrs of parking equals 1 parking ticket easily achieved and 2 fingers up to the council.
A very valid point, whilst not advocating the practice, many will feel the same way. It makes sense then that multiple PCNs are issued a day, and there are some ways of doing this, as well as picking up vehicles that are repeat offenders, again – there are a few ways this can be done.
With nearly a quarter of the parking fees paid using machines over the last year, this is a huge gamble by the council. We and the council don’t understand why people chose to pay this way. Is certainly isn’t just elderly people or those without a smartphone. The current use rates are just too high. It raises the question of what will people do instead? The Council believes people will switch to the app.
The council is making this change as there are costs to upgrade the parking machines costing nearly a quarter of a million pounds. But these machines take millions of pounds a year, so turning them off is a huge risk. From a quick back at the envelope calculation if just 5% of people don’t use the app or don’t park then money will be lost.
Perhaps the campaigners should also put in some freedom of information requests to see if parking revenues have fallen? From the comments here, that’s likely. So even if you get about the fairness and accessibility of parking machines, this decision may be wrong on purely financial grounds. The council’s made a huge financial decision without any trials. As someone who has managed products in the private sector, an action like this would put my job at risk.
My inbox has received a constant number of residents requesting coin operated meters. At last months election we campaigned for at least one coin operated machine in each road. Even for people who have a smart phone, it is quicker & easier to pop a coin in a meter if you are making a quick dash into a shop.
Won’t be spending my money in Brighton any more. Used to have to do three or four stops just bunged a few coins in the machine and done and away. Car parks in Town are ridiculously expensive so haven’t shopped up there for a long time now, because we do bulk shopping, we drive out to Homebush, Worthing or Eastbourne.
Parking prices are not the only problem in Brighton, traffic is a complete mess brought on by all these silly ill thought out schemes like valley gardens that has increased congestion and made bus services even worse not improved them. When I look around this city, it’s crazy, messed up and a complete disaster, will take years to get it back to being just about acceptable.
Well done please keep up the fight. Was an EIA done before this was decided? A disgrace if not…
Even with a smartphone I often get the message ‘not compatible with this device’ when trying for an app. I Infer that this is as I have an ancient phone- like many other old and poor people. Pse liaise with other councillors. I think Carol Theobald is also anti, even if a fifferent party…?
Sounds like those shops where people are making a “quick dash” – they’d actually just benefit from free parking for 20 minutes on the road instead.
If you can’t use a smart phone then should you be driving? I am 69 and to me an app makes things so much easier the sooner we go completely cashless the better. Many of these elderly no doubt help cased many of our problems by voting for brexit so no sympathy
Good grief, what an awful attitude you have towards folk of your own age and those with disabilities. Can’t recall there ever being a phone test in order to use one, as opposed to driving. You anti-brexit bores just can’t help it can you – you do know that plenty of young people voted for Brexit too? What has Brexit got to do with removing cash parking machines anyway, or is that your lazy, stock excuse for everything that doesn’t agree with your ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude?
For all those whingeing about this…
Sign the petition! See the link in the article.
Only c 70 people have signed so far!
If you don’t sign – there won’t be enough signatures,cand the Council won’t debate it.
Do something about it!
BBC article today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65973853#comments
Just got back from Stanmer Park where we encountered lots of people looking exasperatedly at the bin bag wrapped machines in the car park – those who did not have the app, apparently quite a lot of them, were desperately trying to pay via their phones but with seemingly very little success.
Seems like a good way to turn people away from a local attraction…
So Brighton the city of sanctuary, friend to the disenfranchised and supporter of inclusivity effectively picks and chooses whose inclusivity rights they’d like to support. Liberalism ” of course” lgbt rights “you bet” ensuring the older generation can feel part of society? “Not really our thing” ” how much money will they make us?”
Please refer to an earlier comment why this does not align with reality.
Discrimination again against elderley without iphones why can’t it be pay by card if not wanting cash on site? Not a caring council.Wotthing has cash/card/phone points whycant Brighton?
This is a growing problem. Many places are removing machines and changing to pay by app. I tend to avoid these carparks and find a more convenient parking spot. Some car parks dont even have a phone signal!
Can’t afford a smart phone, don’t want a smart phone . So not wanted in Brighton anymore.
Been our town since the 1950 .
So off to Worthing.
Well said. Total discrimination. Not democracy in any shape. Still it is Brighton Council what can we expect. Green or Labour both the same.
Just tried 5 times to sign the petition, it wont let me log in. Any chance of an old fashioned paper one somewhere, ill get a ticket probably when i go to sign it but it would be worth it.
As of 2022, almost 96% of UK internet users owned a smartphone and this has been trending upward over the last few years, and is forecasted to continue to do so well into 2028 by multiple sources, so to play devil’s advocate here, I think the argument that individuals don’t have access to smartphones or the internet to access the app, whilst valid in subjective cases, on the whole, is limited in scope and doesn’t apply to the majority.
Someone mentioned their family wasn’t able to park during a preplanned visit, my first thought is visitor permits which, in my opinion, are far superior, cheaper, and allow you to park in more areas, such as residential bays. There’s potentially a discussion to be made about making these more available to residents, and I know personally had some discussion with BHCC about making these easier to access and in greater quantities.
Internet signal is a valid concern, although this makes a better argument for ensuring we have better mobile and internet coverage, and ensuring that parking providers are also able to be accessed on websites than just mobile apps, and allowing planning/booking ahead of time.
Yes, the vast majority of people own a smartphone. And also yes, it’s easier to pay using the app than using a machine. But, nearly a quarter of people last year paid using machines rather than the app. Most using cards, rather than cash – but cash is still 2% of the total. Cards at machines, 20% and the remaining 78% via the app.
What this means is that nearly a quarter of a few million pounds was paid last year via the machines. Many of these people (statistically) have smartphones so could have paid this way, but they didn’t. We don’t understand why people are paying using machines rather than apps – but we do the number who are doing it far exceeds the numbers without smartphones or who are elderly.
Perhaps these people are looking for a printed receipt? Or privacy? Or other reasons. But if just a tiny percentage of this group using machines at the moment stop parking or go elsewhere then overall money is lost. Not investing in keeping the machines running, when nearly a quarter of people pay that way, is very likely (IMHO) to lose money overall for the council. And this costs us all, as the lost money will have to be found another way
The comments about Stanmer parking are instructive. People giving up and going elsewhere. And it’s possible to park for free nearby and walk in. So what will people do? Already the park is making less parking money than forecast, this is likely to reduce it even further.
Something to consider as well, I looked into the figures of how much the current parking meter costs, according to figures by Devon Council. You’re looking at a lifetime cost of just under £9,500 each, and expected to last 5-10 years, noted to be reduced in seaside towns due to erosion. They simply don’t pay for themselves if that’s the case.
So, if your figures are correct, that’s about £1,000 per year per meter. Many of these machines will make that back in a week, so they pay for themselves many time over. Brighton and Hove risk losing income by not replacing them.
My husband and I use elmgrove quite a lot our doctors is at the bottom we live in woodingdean and take the car we go to elmgrove cafe a lot and the flower pot in elmgrove there is no pay point in that area we used the machine alot in Wellington Street and it was very good for us we are sad that we can’t do that anymore as we are in our 70s and 80s please please give our machine back
From Jan 23 parking report, council makes £11.5m from on street parking (total parking revenue inc. fines is £31m a year, costs are £11m a year so “profit” of £20m)
Parking machines are 22% of the on-street parking revenue so over £2.5m last year. That’s a lot to gamble on removing the machines, even if the machines need an upgrade costing £0.22m (which should be budgeted over 3-5 years) giving a first year cost of maximum £0.07m. So under 3% of the revenue collected by the parking machines. Amazing gamble by the council….. To me it’s worth spending 70 thousand pounds for a few years to get £2.5 million each year. An easy decision. Even if many move across to apps, more than 97% won’t so it’ll be profit negative….. And another gap in funding for the council. Plus the huge discrimination to those who can’t/won’t use apps and harm to tourist revenues. Council – think again!
Your math is slightly off at the last point, it’s less than 3% won’t switch.
yes, as it’s just a model, I’ve rounded (in each case to the council’s favour). In other comments I used 5% as the break-even point which gives nearly double the loss rate to ensure that all my claims were fair. Even using this, it’s clear that the council hasn’t looked at this from a business financial point of view. And that’s a problem as parking really is a business (with £31m in revenue, £11m costs and £20m “profit”). Not investing £0.22m to protect revenues of £2.5m a year from on-street parking machines makes no sense to me…..
Even when I round all the figures in the council’s favour and give them a wide margin for error the financial case for not removing the meters is a “no-brainer”.
No way. Waste of money. Just use the app or pay by phone.
Too many instances where signing up and paying by phone/card is just not feasible/possible or ideal.
Why not offer a scratch card system from Paypoint shops?
The biggest issue with the petition is that those who are not up with technology and visitors to the area will not be able to find/register and sign even if they wanted to.