The council’s advice for people unable to get a phone signal when trying to pay for parking is to move around until they find one.
The advice was given in response to a question at a council meeting and prompted laughter from the public gallery.
The question followed a number of complaints by people who have struggled to pay to park since Brighton and Hove City Council scrapped its hundreds of parking machines.
The machines, which relied on 3G mobile phone technology, were decommissioned in May because the council said it would be too expensive to upgrade them to 4G or 5G.
At the town hall meeting, Hove resident Carol Wilson asked councillors to bring back parking machines and provide a better alternative to the current system of online or phone payments.
She addressed the council’s Transport and Sustainability Committee on Tuesday (3 October) after being given a parking fine in May.
She asked what steps the council had taken to ensure residents and visitors could easily access shops with PayPoint machines to pay for parking when phone signals failed or batteries ran out.
Her suggestions included putting stickers on signs to show people where they could find the nearest PayPoint outlet while the council’s suggestions – such as texts or online maps – required a working smartphone.
Labour councillor Trevor Muten, who chairs the committee, said that anyone struggling for a phone signal should move to another location, prompting laughter from the public gallery.
Councillor Muten also said that if the council’s pay-by-phone system was out of action, then drivers would not be able to pay using PayPoint either – and parking enforcement would be suspended.
Ms Wilson said: “Residents or visitors have the opportunity to appeal – so is this policy approach effectively trapping people into receiving a PCN (penalty charge notice) and forcing people to be at the mercy of a subjective decision from the parking department?
“Is this fair? Is it equitable? And is it acceptable? This same situation happened to me. I had valid grounds and (my appeal) was rejected – and the charge went up to £70. It is happening to a lot of people.”
Outside the meeting, Ms Wilson said that she wrote to her ward councillor Jilly Stevens and the fine was eventually withdrawn.
Councillor Muten said: “We do want to address this to make sure we have a system that works and then people have good communication. We are keen to communicate where the PayPoints outlets are.
“We’re working with other agencies such as Visit Brighton and other support charities to try to enable better publicity of those PayPoint outlets.”
Since cash payments ended, several people have reported not being able to pay for parking because they did not have a smartphone.
In other cases, PayPoint machines in shops were not working or staff were unable to get the system to work.
Brighton and Hove Independent councillor Bridget Fishleigh told the meeting that Rottingdean had no PayPoint outlets for those visitors who were unable to use the pay-by-phone smartphone app.
It was the third time this year that she has formally raised the issue during a council or committee meeting.
She said that the problems were compounded by the reduced mobile phone coverage in Rottingdean after a mast was removed from the roof of the White Horse pub for refurbishment work.
The committee also received a petition signed by 200 people, calling for the council to bring back parking machines and a return to cash and card payments.
Yesterday (Thursday 6 October) a report to the council’s Strategy, Finance and City Regeneration Committee forecast a shortfall of £941,000 in revenues from “parking tariff and permit fees increases”.
This was up from an £830,000 projected shortfall three months earlier when council leader Bella Sankey criticised the some of the proposed increases – more than 300 per cent in places.
Councillor Sankey said: “So flawed was the approach to parking by the last administration, we are not convinced that the projected income from these increased parking charges would be realised.”
Councillors agreed to more modest parking charge increases – closer to the rate of inflation – but a senior council official said yesterday that the rising cost of living appeared to be driving changes in behaviour.
Fewer people were renewing permits for second and third cars, for instance.
Visitor numbers had not yet fully recovered from the loss of business resulting from the coronavirus pandemic restrictions.
Referring to parking and other revenue budget forecasts, the report said: “Targets will only be achieved if demand returns fully to pre-covid levels including paid parking, tourism and venues incomes.”
At the risk of stating the obvious you only get parking revenue from tourism if you make tourist parking and driving acceptable.
Too obvious for the council – obviously
12 miles in a quaint little backwater called Worthing 3G parking meters are still working so someone in Brighton and Hove City Council is telling porkie pies. Or failing in their duty to find an alternative provider if the chosen one was breaking their contract.
Now drivers are expected to run the 4 minute mile – either to find a signal or a shop taking parking Paypoint – which couldn’t be more discriminatory and ablest, to parents with young children as much as the disabled and older drivers.
If the council wants money from drivers, the onus is on them to offer a range of ‘reasonable’ payment options which also accept legal tender.
Or they can forget it.
3G networks are being shut down by most mobile providers this year/early next, so I’m sure this would affect the functionality of parking machines.
Most in home smart meters run off 3G so let’s wait for that chaos to begin!
The whole thing is a load of rubbish. Yes 3G is being phased out by the mobile providers slowly.
But do you know what isn’t being phased out? 2G/EDGE connectivity! 3G modems will easily fall back to 2G.
And as others have said, those machines will still work today, the council has purposely turned them off, whilst they would still work.
On-street reasonable cost of parking is essential for your peace of mind if you are coming to Brighton for a family day out by the sea – but now the cost of half day NCP parking and in the few spaces available for on-street parking, (mostly loading and unloading spaces) in Brighton, keeps you in constant fear, “that the meter is going to run-out’ – and that you will end up with a £60 fine or more for your trouble – and makes it not worth the whole hassle and inconvenience and financial cost of parking, of coming to Brighton’s Seafront in the first place !
tbf driving a private car into central town / seafront is something of a ridiculous thing to do. Just get to where you can get a train / bus. Much nicer than being stuck in a jam on the A23.
You are assuming there is a reliable train service and viable regular coach service as alternatives.
There aren’t.
Agree. I don’t drive but try getting in and out of Brighton by train at the weekend. Several times I’ve been unable to travel to events in London due to strikes or most likely at the mo, engineering works. I pay a fortune for my annual season ticket. Seriously not good value.
I can get there by a delightful hybrid 2.5hr rail replacement bus and train journey but as I need to be half sane for an event this Sunday, I’m being given a car lift.
Everything seems very unhinged right now.
I’d like to see you get on a train carrying all my tools
Sussex Tech22
Have you considered that Trains are either out on strike or there’s engineering every weekend.
Buses, hmm, driver shortages, so no Rail Replacement buses as happened a few weeks ago.
Buses in Brighton rarely operate due to no drivers, delays, road works, poor traffic management, road narrowing’s, no priority schemes, the list is endless.
Driving my car out to Worthing or Eastbourne is much nicer than waiting for a local bus that never shows up.
So basically!
A. Your phone didn’t have a signal.
B. You run out of charge.
Or!
Best answer. In my opinion.
C. You didn’t have, or don’t own, a Smart phone.
They really are very SMART these People! Are they.
Please loose the FEAR. He has BASICALLY spelt it out to you.
Free Parking is now back in Brighton.
Please park courteously, and with full consideration for others though.
The great British cash cow, The Motorist. taxed to buy a car, taxed to own a car, taxed to fuel a car, taxed to park a car. I recently visited Berwick on Tweed and was able to park for 24 hrs for free in all their town centre car parks, I returned every day of my holidays to shop, visit the various historical sites and to dine out. Why would I want to come to rip off Brighton.
PayPoint parking is not a substitute for parking meters. There will never be enough of them and they are difficult to use for anyone with mobility issues. They are also hard to find, as mentioned in the account of the town hall meeting. Parking meters generate money, lots of money, they should easily pay for themselves over time.
I would think that the main cost when running parking meters is collecting the cash from individual machines. So make them card only, remove the keyboards and other superfluous technology, then they will be cheaper to install and maintain. The number of machines could also be reduced if necessary. Anyone that objects to using bank cards can purchase pre-paid cards and keep them handy for parking.
Not everybody wants to own or carry a smartphone at all times, and the system doesn’t always work. Increasing reliance on smartphones is something we will all come to regret (too many reasons to list here). Just bring back the parking meters!
Well said.
In my experience, the mobile signal in Brighton is virtually non existent in most areas including the town centre. This needs to be addressed before even considering using it to pay for parking. Let’s all wander around looking for a signal whilst having a ticket slapped on our windscreen as we do so.
So sensible that the council would not use the suggestion totally incompetent Brighton & Hove is a place so many overseas visitors want to visit because of its history,but word of mouth over our parking system has seen significant drop not COVID it’s parking and price.
If the council parking services had a pound for (1) every time I hear someone say they don’t go to Brighton anymore because it’s filthy, the trains are unreliable due to strikes, there’s nowhere to park and if you’re lucky to find somewhere, it costs £4 an hour, or (2) helping someone staring at their smartphone on the side of the street trying to work it out, or (3) every time I have to reload the app because it doesn’t work or gets frozen on the authentification process (or the ridiculous adverts that now appear on it), or (4) every time I see someone get out of their car and put a fake parking ticket on it, or (5) every time a parking attendant walks past the cars on Western Road either on double yellows or on the pavement because (a) they don’t need the hassle (I don’t blame them) and (b) there’s richer pickings on residential streets, then they’d not need the parking permit scheme at all. I could go on, but I’m worn out from driving round for hours trying to find a space because I’ve been inexplicably allocated a parking zone that doesn’t have any spaces near my actual building. And from trying to communicate with the parking department who, after refusing to respond to your legitimate questions, send you an email with a link to complain/appeal that doesn’t work. The problem isn’t the drivers, the problem is the transport strategy, it’s patchy implementation and arrogant management of it when it’s operating, meaning supporters of modernising our transport infrastructure and bringing down emissions – people like me – feel patronised by said arrogance and loose interest. The end 🙂
I tried parking in hove a couple of weeks ago to get a flu vaccine. The sign asked me to ring a number and I was told this was the wrong number. When I finally got through I was told to enter the four or six digit number. Mine was 5 which was rejected. I gave up and drove to the next nearest clinic which was in Shoreham. I’m never driving to Brighton or Hove again. Well done !🤣
I recently parked in Kingsway near to Rockwater. A friend in another vehicle (he had driven from Tenterden) was parked nearby. We bothe experienced the difficulties you outline.
After 45 minutes of frustration and now 30 mins late for a lunch with friends we were almost resigned to paying a PCN. Luckily a very kind chap, obviously a local, paid for both our vehicles with one if the six parking apps on his phone. We obviously gave him the cash and thanked him profusely. Lucky us.
Look at the revenue that has been lost along the seafront by putting inn so called needed cycle lanes The councils only answer is let’s raise charges
With double the number of cycle lanes along Hove seafront, which many cyclists choose to ignore, while riding either in the road itself or on the pedestrian only promenade by the beach. And some of them are incapable of understanding the meaning of “No cycling”.
Or do what I now do don’t go to Brighton there are lot better seaside areas in worthing and a lot of it is free.
I have stopped my weekly visit to Rottingdean since the phone pay meterswere introduced. The phone signal is awful and a very kind lady paid my parking for me last time due to the fact that her phone had a signal, the pub I visit has lost hundreds of pounds in sales since the system has changed.
I had a similar problem trying to pay for parking at Stanmer Park, although having already registered and used the parking app before it said my card invalid. I then tried to pay with Apple Pay as I had no other cards with me. The option was either greyed out or not working. I then tried to phone to find out nearest cash point – no luck there either. I eventually left and there were 2 other people who also had the same problem and left!
Had to use an NCP car park in central Brighton recently and it was the most disgusting car park I’ve ever parked in . As a Brighton resident I’m embarrassed that that is the experience for tourists to this town .
Made worse about the lack of a standard pay app. I didn’t have the required one installed so had to download it but it took 10 mins and 2 attempts in Hanover due to poor signal and yes I didn’t wonder up and down holding my phone up to try and get a signal, I must have looked mad
I know many active elderly people who do not own smart phones. They now cannot visit Stanmer Park etc to walk as it is impossible for them to pay for parking.
Well tbh they could always get a smartphone. Some cost I know but they’re already running a car so it’s fairly marginal.
Haha . Buy a smartphone so you can park your car . Do you work for Brighton council?
My wife and I went to Brighton last week for a meal. I have a blue badge so I thought I would be OK to park on the street. Unfortunately there are very few spaces in town and all were occupied. Alternative was the Lanes car park, where blue badge holders have to pay , I was shocked to be charged £10.40 for an hour and and half!
I am a disabled pensioner, this unexpected cost on top of the cost of the meal has put me off coming back.
A shame as I used to like the city, but I get the impression that any visitor is viewed by the council as fair game to be rinsed for as much revenue as possible.
It can’t be about pollution, as a lot of the cars in the expensive Lanes car park were gas guzzlers.
My wife and I used to be regular visitors to Brighton but have decided not to anymore due to the nightmare of trying to pay for parking. The old system of machines on the street worked well, but the new system requiring smart phones has become a barrier creating fear of being fined.
Brighton is no longer a welcoming place.
I Agree with Barry, it’s obviously another bad management thing again. Parking machine technology is not at the difficult end of modern tec. If we expected the council to put another JW telescope into orbit I’d say tough job. But come on managing parking machines isn6that difficult. So it leaves me thinking what else they fail at. Oh yeah quite a lot actually . I think replace the council with a class 2b from a local primary school from which you will get imaginative solutions. Jc
I second the notion to dissolve the current incompetent council and install Class 2b picked at random from the school pool in the city and to rotate every 12 months.
No doubt kindergarten’rs will succeed where this and the previous lot failed, repeatedly and I have faith will have the city in a much better place in 2-3 years than if we carry on as as we are.
Can I have a 3rd with which to carry the motion and save our city via the superior intellect and problem solving abilities of our pre-teen children and/or toddlers
Brilliant Clayton…totally agree
I’m just thinking this thread should be passed on to the council..not that they give a damn
Completely missing the point. It’s not that the management of parking meters is technically complex. But the cost of changing to 4/5G mobile Comms is expensive. This is impacting on other sectors that use cellular Comms for data transfer. But the power to influence the network standards does not lie with any local authority. Look to central govt / OFCOM.
Heres a secret, 3G isnt off yet. The council have shut the machines down prematurely.
Heres the 2nd secret, 2G/GPRS connectivity is not being turned off, only 3G. And guess what, those 3G modems will fall back to 2G no problem.
The whole thing is a farce. Parking machines don’t need 4G connectivity.
2b or not 2b…..that is the question?
Spitfire answered with a clear woof: but didn’t say what side he was on.
I mean I don’t want to go speaking for them but I’d point out “Spitfire” is a pretty go-getter and “not f’ing around” name.
Strikes me as a hound whose ready to put his paw in the ring and say ( howl) “No more useless self serving morons. Bring forth Class 2B for the good of human, and dog, and cat kind (but only coz I’ve been told I have to. I mean what’s the point they won’t care you know. Bet they’ll bugger off for days then hide a mouse behind the couch) and return this city to one run by ( little) people with some actual intelligence” ….
….but like I said. That’s just guess work and it’s not really my place to speak for them. Shame really I just filled the jerry can and could’ve popped into town and dealt with the current prats super quick (( CLEAR JOKE BEFORE IM BRANDED FAR RIGHT OR HAVE PC PLOD KNOCKING ON MY DOOR TO DRAG ME OFF FOR RE-EDUCATION))
I found it impossible last month when I visited. I suppose driving people away from visiting Brighton is the best way to manage visitor numbers…
Madness.
The phone signal is terrible becuse people keep objecting to 5g masts. Technology is moving on and we need to move on with it
Pointless BHCC telling you to go to the nearest PayPoint as not all of them cater for parking.
BHCC Transport/Parking department is clearly populated by a bunch of dogma driven thickies
I avoid Brighton like the plague now, but there are times when you have to go to a hospital or clinic, and it’s nigh on impossible to use the phone to pay for your parking. When you’ve waited months to get an appointment and then you lose it due to an incompetent council who’ve c*cked up the parking system, it’s beyond infuriating!
I’m going to put that under things that never happened.
Good for you!
As an ex long-term Brighton resident, I was frustrated and appalled by the new payment system, recently. B&HCC, you have lost your way. I won’t be coming back again, to put myself through that pain. Life is too complicated already.
We get it that you (Brighton &Hove Council) are under massive financial pressures. But you need to get your own house in order. Perhaps start by investigating how a senior IT manager is allowed to employ his girlfriend on obscene contractor rates, even though she is rude, devisive, arrogant and largely incapable of doing her job. Meanwhile, seniors just turn a blind eye. We local residents should not be funding this appauling gross incompetence.
Oof – sounds like a good exposé for Brighton and Hove News to report on Anon!
It is true that: “you get the council you voted for”.
If your council continues making stupid decisions then vote for an alternative next time.
When I use the pay by phone app, I pay 10p per transaction, which covers the cost of providing and using the app. Perhaps the on-street ticket machines could be reintroduced, with a surcharge per transaction, that would cover the cost of providing and maintaining them. Then everyone is happy. I pay for the app, others pay for the machine.
Good idea. If people had to pay for the actual cost of maintaining and upgrading a network of parking meters in this way my bet is they’d very quickly decide that buying a smart phone and paying 10p transaction charge was the much cheaper option.
My Wife recently openened a new retail business on Hove. We rent a flat in Raphael road to be close to setting up the business. Our rental truck got a parking ticket as we were in a parking permit bay after 7pn whilst unloading our furniture. We are investing in Brighton and Hove but that’s the welcome we received on our first day. My appeal was rejected even after presenting our evidence of truck rental and flat lease.
Parking in a permit bay within the hours of operation requires a permit, that’s usually how these things work.
A tip, if you’re just moving to the area maybe knock on a neighbour’s door and ask if they have a spare visitor’s permit while you’re unloading. Many of us have spare ones lying around and are happy to help prospective neighbours.
Doesn’t Brighton and Hove Councillors realise that the whole parking issue is having a massive detrimental effect on B & H image both with potential visitors and locals? Just chasing the money, without proper investment, focus on easy targets such as the car driver. Our UK and EU friends give a thumbs down opinion and won’t be visiting any time soon.
Brighton is as backwards as hell, no 5G, no fibre internet.
Parking is impossible 40 minutes driving around to carry shopping 5 minutes to the door. Permits are a rip off parking costs are ridiculous. Used the train station yesterday the place is filthy. The council seem intent on running Brighton into the ground.
You’re struggling to find parking because there are too many cars for such a densely populated city. The various council parking schemes are an attempt to manage this problem. Resident permits try to allocate spaces equitably to residents, while discouraging multiple car ownership. On-street paid parking attempts to provide spaces for short visits, while discouraging people to use these spaces for days at a time. The basic problem is that space is fixed while demand keeps increasing. And as any economist will tell you, when demand exceeds supply, prices go up.
The council keeps removing roadside parking for things which could go elsewhere, like communal bins and the very welcome secure cycle parking shelters. Some years back, it got rid of the old coach park too. Coaches sometimes use Madeira Drive, but that’s closed to traffic about half the weekends of the year.
To profit from parking, the council keeps creating zones and bays in places where parking was free, much reducing capacity even as the population grows, and displacing any problems. In many permit areas, there are loads of empty bays for much of the day, including where I live. I often see drivers cruising around looking for non-permit bays. There should be more bays shared between permit holders and those paying.
Capacity is an issue and there is often more demand than supply, but it really isn’t as simple as that. The council has a clear strategy of monetising parking and rakes in more than any council outside London year in year out.
Also, for years the council’s planning policies have ensured too few parking spaces are included in new schemes.
The removal of the parking machines may be convenient for the council, but it’s not convenient for drivers. The current revenue shortfall could support the anecdotal evidence that more people are risking a ticket rather than pay when they’re parking fir relatively short periods.
I gave up my car when I took a lower-paid and less stressful job closer to home when my children moved out, and I’m keen on discouraging car use, by fair means rather than exorbitantly and progressively hitting hardest those on lower incomes, or making payment challenging fir a significant sector of the population, especially tourists and visiting shoppers.
The solution is so simple it beggars belief. Simply use the same scratch cards they use for residents parking. These can be bought in advance so there’s no rushing to find a paypoint shop or rely on dodgy phone networks. Yes this wouldn’t necessarily work for people from out of town but would work for local people who maybe need to visit hospital or friends in a different permit zone
Not sure you understand how visitors permits work. You can buy permits for your own zone (after providing multiple proofs of residence). Those permits work in your zone, you can’t use them anywhere else. So no, you couldn’t use them to vist hospital or friends in a different permit zone. PayPoint is the suposed alternative to smartphone parking and, as pointed out by many other people, it is completely useless. In theory you can also ring up PayByPhone to pay for parking, but good luck with that!
Not wanting to condone bad behaviour but frankly the insane cost of parking in some parts of town it’s worth taking a chance and not paying. I mean in what world can you justify up to £25 to park for 8 hours in an 8×4 stretch of insecure concrete, subject to bent wing mirrors from passing pedestrians? And before anyone suggests otherwise parking without paying us not illegal as it’s been decriminalised for 20 odd years
I tried parking in Brighton after my wife and I were going to have a meal and do some shopping. Gave up as meters that took money were gone and no signal on my phone. We gave up and left will not visit again. Brighton is so anti car and visitors it seems. I now believe the town is run by the anti everything Green Party. Enough said.
I was in Brighton earlier this year, visiting from Spain. Impossible to park and pay in Kemptown or Hove. I tried with credit cards, debit cards but to no avail. I tried to talk to someone that didn’t work either. I think I eventually managed to park by changing zones in Hove. Terrible experience, I don’t know if the machines didn’t like my registration. The same thing happened in 2022.
Given how busy I’ve seen Brighton seafront and beach in the last few months – I’ll hazard a guess that visitor numbers are quite high. But that spending is less per head due to cost of living / cost increases particularly wrt eating out.
It’s nice to see a lone sane commenter from time to time. You’re exactly right.
All the traffic coming in from the A23 is now squeezed into one lane on the seafront when you turn right, or go west. It creates an illusion of greater busy-ness, but it’s an artificially engineered traffic jam. The growing number of empty shops and other business premises, even in the prime retail areas, would appear to tell a different story. There is no direct public transport to Brighton from my home, but I restrict my visits now to need. As most of your commenters have said, parking in Brighton is not a customer-friendly experience. Increasingly, I order online. The nights out my partner and I once tagged on to our trips into Brighton are now spent elsewhere or at home. Brighton will draw people for some years yet, but few will return. We were once regulars, but we avoid it as best we can.
Parting in Brighton is an absolute nightmare. The number of times you get signal issues is unbelievable, especially on residential streets. Last time the app failed to work and I called the number on the post I got a message that said the number had changed and they read it out once and disconnected. Great, thanks, no paper or pen. Couldn’t you have just texted it to me, or better still, update the signs at the side of the road? Smartphones are great, but they need a signal to be useful. Paypoint machines in shops are pointless. I don’t need a 15 walk, to a place where I need to use my smartphone to find where it is. Then by the time you get back, you have a PCN that you need to appeal at least twice because they automatically reject the first appeal. Please, just fix the machines, or just avoid Brighton because it is so dirty and unfriendly.
Or better still, avoid Brighton altogether
Well, I have just returned from a weekend in Brighton. Parking was a nightmare, to say the least. I was staying in New Steine but had to park, initially, at the top of Freshfield Road and walk down to check in. I moved the car after 8pm to a space nearer then moved again before 9am. Monday morning I was meeting a friend by Park Crescent but had to park for the day in Dudley Road. Another friend told me that Hollingdean had voted to not have residents bays everywhere so thanks you.
What really stood out was the lack of alternatives. I would’ve expected some bays by shops etc with a waiting time restriction, say 30 mins with no return for 2 hours but nothing so I couldn’t stop by Five Ways at all.
Where I live, in Yorkshire, we have bays for 30 mins, 1 hour and 2 hours and many other towns I have visited have similar as well as resident only bays.
I also do not have a smart phone. I called the 01273 number which to,d me to download the app or call an 0330 number in the future. It then required me to set up an account for my phone. Er, no…….I’m not handing over a load of details just to park!
So, something needs sorting. This is worst I have experienced anywhere in the UK.
I wrote a letter to the Argus, where I noted that in order to park without a mobile phone, you need to find a space, then get out of the car and find a Paypoint, and all within five minutes, which is the time allowed to park without a ticket. I challenged Cllr. Muten to demonstrate this being done, and also added that he could employ Usain Bolt to act for him. I am still awaiting a reply!!
My partner had an early morning coach trip leaving at Hove Town Hall. Parking in the car park opposite the app did not work. Others tried for her but failed. With the coach about to leave she was forced to leave the car minus a ticket. On return, of course, there was a ticket. With no alternative such as payment by card, what could she do? This is a ridiculous situation affecting numerous other people.
I’m with O2 and find the parking app works fine. Not getting a signal is a mobile phone operator issue and not really a council problem. I guess the council could help the operators install more masts in places like Stamner park.