A new school canteen queueing system which gives priority to pupils with higher attitude scores has been criticised by parents.
Dorothy Stringer introduced the new rules for breaktime queueing for year 9 pupils yesterday after a trial with year 11.
Each child has been given a photo ID card with an attitude to learning (ATL) score from 1 to 6.
But parents say it could end up being a constant, public punishment for children with special educational needs – and could exacerbate eating disorders.
One parent said: “As a SEND specialist I’m quite shocked at the labelling and shaming of students based on subjective judgements of teachers.
“It’s not based on any educational research. It’s placing more pressure on anxious students. It will separate friendship groups.
“They haven’t informed parents or consulted.
“It’s such a negative step.”
Head Matt Hillier said: “The new pass system was introduced as a trial for Year 11 to improve our queuing system and ensure that all students can access the canteen safely in an orderly and timely manner. It only applies at breaktime and not at lunchtime.
“The new system has had a hugely positive impact with Year 11. It has removed any poor queuing behaviour, and all students gain access to the canteen quicker than they did with the old system, regardless of their Attitude to Learning (ATL).
“The system also recognises and rewards students who demonstrate a positive ATL in school.
“ATL is a score calculated for students across all of their subjects. Teachers take into account students’ SEN needs when allocating ATL and it is not linked to ability.
“The ATL is therefore not limited by a student’s SEN needs, and lots of our students with SEN needs gain high ATL scores. A small number of students with a specific need linked to canteen entry already have passes that allow them to bypass the queue.
“As the trial has been successful, we are now expanding the system to Year 9.”
Has the Head been to China?
I don’t know but I have and I don’t recall the queuing systems being quite this organised. What’s your point im asking this?
China operates a ‘social credit’ system based on an individual’s conduct that provides sanctions intended to reflect the ruling communist party’s priorities – and prejudices.
Yeah, I’m quite well aware of the Chinese system thanks, but I still don’t see the original point. The whole thing is based on the false equivalence of a provincial secondary school and an autocratic global superpower. Plus, I think giving some kids the benefit of getting their elevensies a bit quicker, so that everyone can it a bit quicker than they were before, is bit different to blocking passports, freezing bank accounts, and imprisoning people in labour camps.
If you know anything about Chinese society, then you would get this comment.
I got the comment, I was just asking for the point in posting it, which we’ve now drawn out. An inflammatory and needless false equivalence, as detailed more fully above.
Bit of a difference between adults and children.
Are they running an equivalent “Attitude to Teaching” for Staff too?
When I’d only read the headline I thought this sounded horrible. Once I’d read the rest of the explanation I thought this sounded great. If it didn’t work, or had negative outcomes, they wouldn’t have expanded it. Clearly they’ve spotted an issue and come up with a working solution to address it. I don’t know why this has been presented in the way it has?
If there is an issue with queuing then a solution should be equitable, not based on meritocracy – food is a human right.
Yep, and since it seems no-one is being denied any basic human rights here, I hope we’re all finally agreed that this whole furore is completely pointless.
It’s probably also worth noting that children have a basic right to education, which it seems that this system is intended to help and reinforce their access of. So maybe the point in this is that we agree that this revised queueing system is a good thing after all?
Also, you seem to suggest that meritocracy and equity are mutually incompatible. Which I’d like to hear more about, so go on….
Presented thus, as it’s clickbait local newspaper.
it has made children act better in class according to numbers, but y’know what statistic don’t show? the feelings of the people who are going hungry, being seperated from their friends, having to lose most of their lunchtime via barely any fault of their own and being singled out beacuse of their educational special needs. it may be good for acedemial improvment, but it certainly won’t have a posotive effect on the children themselves.
It clearly states that this is applied only to break-times and not to lunchtime. No-one is going hungry, they are still making the same amount of food or withholding food from pupils with poor behaviour.
It also states that SEN are taken into account when giving these scores and they’re not given based on ability. Every point you make here is addressed in the article.
yes, i agree. it probably might be good for posotive acedemiality but also think this is what school are there to help kids with so maybe in the longer term it won’t be so negotove for ’em/
I suspect so. Normally they’re referred as ‘student voice’ or ‘student council’ though. A lot of schools also have performance related pay progression too. Plus, teachers with better attitudes to teaching tend to have better access to better jobs, which is meritocratic in the same way that this seems ems to be. Although I have to confess I don’t know if Stringer actually have any of these in place.
Shocking. Like something out of 1984. Emotionally brutal and inept. Really shouldn’t be in charge of children.
I would be interested to know if the school had exercised suitable rigour in its trial with year elevens to ensure it was still meeting it’s duty of care to SEN children and children from poorer economic backgrounds who typically exhibit lower attainment. Had they ensured that standard considerations like selection bias and appicabilty of the finding to lower age groups (that are typically more vulnerable and less well represented) was evidence based. I challenge the school to publish it’s findings to ensure that they are not actually disadvantaging the less privileged children. Schools are paid a pupil premium for disadvantaged children, including food in breaks, that are now being denied or restricted. Without such evidence it can only be assumed that’s this is a poor experiment in social engineering. Stand up and provide evidence for your assertions being imposed on hundreds of children. Finally moderation is required for all other education but apparently not ATLs which can be a single teacher’s opinion of a child. Where are the checks and balances and formal right of appeal before we deny privileges? Is Food a privilege? Perhaps it is at stringer.
Hear, hear! I’m a parent of a child who’s reputation preceded them. Even on good days, she was treated VERY differently to other children in her class. It can boil down to whether the teacher actually likes the child.
Maybe disabled kids could start wearing a special coloured label too or be made to eat out of a trough? As a parent of a disabled child I am utterly disgusted and deeply offended. The detrimental effect on the children will be there for life.
I’m sorry to hear you’re finding this idea so troubling but the article, or somewhere in the comments at least, clearly states that provision has been made for SEN kids. The kids that require a little extra help or support are receiving it. Hopefully knowledge of that can help soothe your vitriolic disgust.
Having worked in Children’s Services, I know that attitude is often linked with ability. If a child feels/is less able, they are more likely to disengage. Therfore, the school could be, indirectly, punishing those children who are less able. Despicable!
Forcing those who are struggling to the back of the queue.
Dorothy Stringer – “Education For Life” and your place in the queue is where it starts kids.
Having worked in Children’s Services, I know there can be a direct link between attitude and ability. If a child feels/is less able, they are more likely to disengage and, therefore, act up. The school could be, indirectly, punishing those who are less able. Despicable!
A lot of students who work really hard get annoyed and fed up that others that usually don’t work hard or disrupt lessons get lots of praise and rewards to acknowledge any kind of effort or if they manage to behave for a lesson. Sure, the students with higher ATLs perhaps recognise that some way down the line (no pun intended!) they’ll benefit in good exam results if they do their homework, participate positively, and don’t disrupt other people’s learning and opportunities, but it’s kind of nice that they are getting this benefit in a more immediate daily sense and it’s a positive reinforcement for their approach to school and learning. Like the head says, it’s just at breaktime.
The fact they are using food as reward/punishment is totally wrong, basic human rights is for a child to be able to eat, just like being able to use the toilet, it’s totally out of order.
They aren’t starving them. I suggest you attitude to learning can’t be that great if you haven’t read the article.
also raises GDPR issues as this personal data would otherwise be confidential to the student and their family and no justifiable reason to share more widely
No it doesn’t.
Yes it does – a pupil’s ATL is their personal data. It’s always been confidential but is now visibly displayed via their queue ranking to all their peers. Unless you are just disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it?
I’ll readily admit I’m no expert (hence why I started my previous comment with ‘pretty certain’) but I’ve looked up similar things in the past within GDPR and think this seems OK within the school context. Note, your original point was about GDPR specifically, and not data protection more generally.
My interpretation of GDPR here is that’s OK because private data remains private on-site and that it’s being used for the public good. I’ll admit once again that I’m not an expert and my interpretation has huge holes in it, but without it I struggle to figure out how schools can function legally.
On the other hand if you’re right and schools are not able to process and use data in this way then the current educational system of the UK basically becomes entirely unworkable. Kids are put in sets based on ability which is worked out through tests and otherwise private data. These data are shared everyday when the kids go to their lessons. At least here they can opt-out and choose not to go to the canteen, if they so wish. Children cannot opt out of sets.
I’m not stating an opinion on sets or streaming, just that it’s currently how schools work. Some schools have done away the whole thing but then that’s raised other issues.
ATL is meant to be a private piece if information, unless discussed at the child’s discretion. This system takes that choice away from the child and can create shame and embarrassment, and therefore fuel poor behaviour and an even poorer ATL
Pretty certain GDPR isn’t relevant here. GDPR makes some provisions for, and references to, confidentiality, but that’s not what it’s really about. Mostly it’s about whether a person is identifiable from a piece of information and no student can be individually identified from their ATL.
GDPR is also about why a piece of personal information is processed and whether it’s in the public interest, which I genuinely think this is.
This comment displays a very limited and inaccurate understanding of data protection, although I’m sure you won’t let that stop you!
Wow, I am so glad that I didnt put this school as a first choice for my son! Praying he gets Varndean. This isnt a particular fair and Bright idea of the head 🙁 to stop races queuing but then inevitably puts less advantage aged and more vulnerable kids in a horrible position
Come to school for segregation, hunger and mental battering. Mental health not on the circulam at this hell hole. Thank god this pit is now being shamed.
Can your child behave? If not why not?
Whatever happened to good ol’ alphabetical?
My son is at this school, the heavy weights of the school (not all the teachers) have treated him badly, he has been labelled, discriminated against and bullied. On top of this they refused to assist with SEN diagnosis (which he now had thanks to CAMHS forcing the school to play ball). This queue idea is shaming and marginalising the child, further alienating them. As humans we are evolving all the time in the way we treat others…. This school is doing the opposite. It’s like the bloody hunger games (no pun intended). It’s disgraceful and the head should be made accountable for this (and other) decisions.
I, unfortunately, sent my daughter to this school where she had an absolutely miserable time. She was continuously bullied by one boy in particular, and the school was totally inept dealing with the situation. I presented myself at the school on a number of occasions to find a resolution, but they took no meaningful action. She, then, visited her mother in Germany and never returned. She now does homeschooling there, such were her experiences at Dorothy Stringer.
I was present when the School Principle first arrived
and held a sermon on respect. Unfortunately my daughter was in no way treated with the respect he ( at length) preached about. Now I read this, and the anger resurfaces. I only hope that this excuse of a principle one day feels the anguish, pain, and guilt I was left with. I really do!
I am a parent of a pupil here and am totally shocked at the wider social engineering implications of this!! Another extremely ill thought out idea by the Head Matt Hillier. The wider story is he stopped providing parents with individualised end of year school reports. Instead we only get generic ATL reports (Attitude to learning) reports on our children. They are useless and tell us nothing. They are a few boxes ticked by a teacher in each subject for e.g a child is 1. Always respectful. 2. Sometimes respectful.3. Never respectful in respective subjects. So we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how our children are actually doing in individual subjects. Some teachers have told our child that they can’t be bothered to fill them out for everyone so just award the same scores for everyone. ATL’S are NOT based on fact just the whim of the teacher on any given day so to then use these ‘scores’ to segregate kids is absolutely ABSURD. FOOD IN THE CANTEEN OFTEN RUNS OUT so those last in the queue will be punished. Absolutely no one but a child parents and teachers should ever know another’s ATL score. To publicly shame and humiliate kids in this way and separate them from each other by such draconian standards is something that belongs in a Dickens novel not a modern secondary. The degree of negative re-inforcement this will have for the kids already struggling is shameful. This school needs to re-instate proper individualised subject end of year reports for our children and stop using data and crappy systems to manage the school. Running the school like a business and separating kids based on this dubious data has sucked any care and sense of culture out of the school. Start treating our kids like the individuals they are rather than a data entry point!
Lots of, if not most, schools have moved over to this style of reporting. It’s a way of cutting down on teacher workload in order that schools can function with the diminished budgets given out by central government. If you want proper reports then campaign for properly funded schools, or go private. Under the current government teachers in the state sector really don’t have the time to write such things.
Not true. Every other parent friend I have in who sends their kids to equivalent sized schools in Sussex. Heathfield, Lewes Priory, Uckfield all get an individual report. Varndean gives grade assessments Dorothy Stringer gives nothing but this flawed ATL which is crappy, subjective and flawed. To then use this to segregate kids even if only for 5 minutes at break is the pits!
Firstly, an individualised report, written by teachers, is still highly subjective, arguably more so. Does DS really only give ATLs? And no summary of academic progress?
As a teacher across two schools for several years I have never written a personalised report. I also never did it when I worked in higher education and got the modern briefer style of report when I was in FE back in the early 2000s. I’ve discussed this with many of my much more experienced colleagues and have always left conversations with the feeling that ATLs and briefer reporting (such as Varndean’s Grade Assessments) is an increasingly standard practice.
I have five half-brothers and two half-sisters and also have a sister-in-law who had been a primary teacher, and had been part of SLT, although is now taking a career break, largely on account of dealing with parents and poor behaviour and the general underfunding of schools. As one of the experienced teachers of the family I’ve read many of my younger siblings and nieces and nephews reports and most have changed over to this kind of thing over the last few years. My step-mum is a TA in a primary and has also witnessed the change to this style of reporting. One nephew still gets personalised reports, but he travels some distance to go to a private school on a bursary, the others have all been this way for some time.
Generally, my thinking is that communication between schools and parents is much more regular these days, on account of apps and emails etc, so lengthy reports are less necessary than they used to be. Sending ATLs is really just a way of trying to engage the less engaged parents, or to give a summary to parents of the kids in the middle that neither regularly get the positive points, but also don’t get the negative contacts home either.
I work further north than all the areas you mention, and my family are mostly in Hampshire, or way up North. Maybe it’s a regional thing?
I’m catching up with a mate that’s taught in primaries and taught cover across most of Leeds and Bradford for the last 15 years soon so will eagerly see what he thinks.
There is no summary of Academic progress until years 10 and 11. So not until after options have been chosen. You can ask questions at parents eve but are limited to seeing a max of 6 subject teachers. So no overall written assessment of academic progress it leaves parents feeling uninformed. If the ATL was an adjunct to something else and just used as a benchmark of attitude/performance I’d have no problem with it. But it’s replaced meaningful feedback and is now is being used in ways that are questionable.
The school also uses the ATL to decide who can be cannot go to prom…. This school needs to be shaken up. It’s discrimination, the world is evolving to be kinder to each other… this school is going backwards.
Lots of schools do that. I remember friends not being allowed to go to ours back in the 90s (not that I actually wanted to anyway). I think the logic is that the end of school dance is a privilege and that children should earn that privilege in some way. There’s also something of a correlation between kids that mess around in lessons and ruin it for everyone and kids that mess around at parties and ruin those too.
I think everyone is overreacting, has no one the common sense to realise that there was no uproar when this was first trialled with year 11? Perhaps it’s this particularly year 9 cohort that are a collective issue since only yesterday did this come into effect for year 9 and everyone is suddenly treating it as nefarious and scandalous.
I don’t think it was common knowledge then. There’s uproar now because people are only finding out about it now. We’re fighting for the many, not the few
It was common knowledge, to the contrary what I see in these comments is an absence of common sense. Don’t you think the year 11 parents would have complained if this was such a draconian issue? Your ardency is fuelled by misinformation by a stupid tabloid article.
My daughter goes to Stringer. Is she telling lies too??
Well this tabloid article is exaggerated, as a person with common sense would expect. Furthermore, a major issue is that parents will devote in a themselves in a “fight” against a school if they feel their children are being at all disciplined. Living in Brighton accentuates things of course, but we have a torrent of helicopter parents who believe that they raise saints and if anyone sanctions their child they take it personally. Parents need to let the school take care of their issues because surprise, suprise, they know what works and what doesn’t. I don’t assume you work for the school and see the other reasons for implementing this system. Your anger is fuelled by a tabloid and an impartial account of your child.
Calm down, they not starving the kids. Something for something. Tell your child to behave and they will be in the front of the queue. They can’t let the strongest bully to push past the queue every time.
Spoken like a person/parent with no clue on SEN needs or vulnerable children. Clap clap
Sen student have a queue pass regardless, they get to be at the front.
It’s not true that all SEN pupils are at the front of the lunch queue. What about for e.g dyslexic kids whose overall scores in the ATL are affected in hidden ways? Slightly less engaged than their peers and act out ever so slightly more in class because they don’t get the same level of engagement with class materials?Or an anxious kid who has a bit of school refusal and isn’t their best in the huge school classroom environment are their ATL scores going to be as good as others? It’s one thing put it on a report card for loved ones to see it’s another thing entirely to start allowing or denying access to privileges based on these scores.
If it’s an issue with bullying, deal with that particular issue (which Stringer have NEVER been very good at). Don’t enforce a rule that affects the entire year group.
This method works better, it’s quicker and safer. It worries me we can’t make these necessary changes without people feeling like their liberties and rights are being stripped from them…
But these changes AREN’T necessary. Deal with the root cause, rather than punishing the majority
The root cause is not a one size fits all problem. There is no cure, no antidote, no magic wand that will restore order and serenity. If there was, by jove, it would have been fixed. This system benefits the majority. It’s safer, quicker and civilised. A poorly behaved minority suffer the ghastly consequences of waiting an extra 2 minutes in a bloody queue! The horror! If this is too draconian for your tastes you are setting up your children for failure. As for sen students, they have special passes regardless. Also the notion that it segregates friendships is absurd. Are students really going to be scared for life because they can’t queue with their friends? A true friend could wait. I reiterate also that this is only in place at break time.
This is so much deeper than having to wait an extra 2 minutes in a queue. This is about class, and where you fit in society. That’s what people have a problem with. Not a waiting time
As a person who uses that queue daily I must say I am so glad for your ardent support, where would I be without you? I would never have realised I was being segregated on my social class! Don’t you realise that if your stupid comment was the case it would have been raised by the students? We are not stupid. But the parents on the other hand…? Following your enlightening comment the collective school cohort will have an epiphany and rebel against this cruel, communist, nefarious system. How have we been so blindsided to this awful segregation by social class?!
Because this system does not do that at all. Maybe find something better to do than meddle with a school because you’re bored. It’s immature really, but it makes people laugh so…
Stringer Student you are sounding immature now. Our role as parents is to speak up for our children when daft measures like this are put in place. No other school segregates canteen times on this basis and there’s a reason for that it IS controversial and a bad idea. Separate people according to form, name any other measure. We are fed up with every aspect of our child’s time at school being ranked and assessed. They should be able to have breaks and eat free of this ‘scoring’ system. I’m glad the system is working for you but I assure you for some kids it’s just another knock to them and reinforcement of their place as the last in the scheme of things. It’s divisive and ill thought out and has much wider ramifications than you chose to see.
It’s not true that all SEN pupils are at the front of the lunch queue. What about for e.g dyslexic kids whose overall scores in the ATL are affected in hidden ways? Slightly less engaged than their peers and act out ever so slightly more in class because they don’t get the same level of engagement with class materials?Or an anxious kid who has a bit of school refusal and isn’t their best in the huge school classroom environment are their ATL scores going to be as good as others? It’s one thing put it on a report card for loved ones to see it’s another thing entirely to start allowing or denying access to privileges based on these scores.
Parents need to trust their children’s schools to take appropriate action. Staff act in students best interests where possible. The staff who devise these measures have more knowledge of the situation than you. They are experienced, know what works and doesn’t work, and more importantly witness student behaviour every school day. Your resources that fuel your argument are often impartial, based off your children’s whims or tabloids. I think you’d be mortified if you witnessed the vile behaviour your “angels” are capable of. Leave the school staff to make these policies, they know so much more than parents will ever know. If you think you have a better solution, the school has likely considered it and disregarded it for good reason.
Stringer Student you are sounding immature now. Our role as parents is to speak up for our children when daft measures like this are put in place. No other school segregates canteen times on this basis and there’s a reason for that it IS controversial and a bad idea. Separate people according to form, name any other measure. We are fed up with every aspect of our child’s time at school being ranked and assessed. They should be able to have breaks and eat free of this ‘scoring’ system. I’m glad the system is working for you but I assure you for some kids it’s just another knock to them and reinforcement of their place as the last in the scheme of things. It’s divisive and ill thought out and has much wider ramifications than you chose to see.
I am well aware of the terrible behaviour that can go on in schools.I have no problem with discipline or kids being sent to the back of a queue on any given day for bad behaviour. But the ATL is totally flawed. Some teachers are more lenient than others in their scoring and it’s not an exact science. So it shouldn’t be used for any other purposes than giving parents and indication of their children’s behaviour. To ‘group’ kids according to such subjective data is deeply wrong even if it is only for 5 minutes at break. I refute your claims that this is the only way to do it. The outrage to this system is valid because no other school is mad enough to even begin to use the scores this way because they shouldn’t be. Other larger schools manage without resorting to such measures the school needs to admit it took a misguided step and make an about turn sharpish.
Does no one realise there wasn’t such a scandal or backlash when this was implemented with year 11? This points to the issues lying in the year 9 cohort, as this “ nefarious treatment” has only been discussed to such lengths so recently after implementation to year 9. And yes the behaviour of the majority of year 9 is abysmal. This system works wonderfully and there is no need to call the European court of human rights.
My God what has this school sunk to. Who the hell is in charge here. This demonstrates everything that is bad in education today.
Go on, what’s bad in education today and how does this demonstrate it? I’d intrigued.
Dear me Otobon, in a world where people are starving, persecuted, and dying for their fundamental human rights this queuegate makes you so upset? We need to put this into perspective. If you put your energy into something more productive then you might just change something for the better. Look at the more serious humanitarian crises occurring worldwide, there are silent victims who need your support more than these children.
The thing is in a free and democratic society we are lucky enough to chose what we comment on. I’ll exercise that right when it comes to things as daft as this. ATL should be used to inform parents of behaviour beyond that it has no valid use within the school. It’s a slippery slope using data like this and brings up much wider questions.
2 things, firstly and I don’t care who you think you are, in the real world no one has the right to jump a queue. Secondly, Stringer now has the poorest reputation of all Brighton area schools, everyone says so and the responsibility for this falls on the head teacher. The school is a laughing stock, bullying and poor behaviour is rife and that’s just the teachers. The students run riot both in and after school. I’m surprised its not on special measures.
It is still on the whole a good school and has some lovely and dedicated members of staff and gets the 2nd best results in Brighton state schools. But the Attitude to Learning system is flawed it’s an approximation and subjective and certainly shouldn’t be used to control access to the canteen at break times.