Plan to turn Brighton pub into hostel rejected

Posted On 27 Aug 2014 at 10:58 pm

A plan to turn a former Brighton pub into a hostel has been rejected.

The planning application to convert the Toby Inn, in Cowley Drive, Woodingdean, was thrown out at a meeting at Hove Town Hall this afternoon (Wednesday 27 August).

Councillor Dee Simson, who represents Woodingdean on Brighton and Hove City Council, spoke out against the application by Tim Martin Interiors, of Adelaide Crescent, Hove.

Neighbours had complained about not being consulted about the proposed 18-room hostel.

Council repairs

They said that it would overlook some homes, that there would not be enough kitchen and laundry facilities and that the building should be used for much-needed housing.

The council’s Planning Committee was told in a report that the Toby Inn closed in 2006.

The council revoked its licence at the request of Sussex Police after the force received a series of complaints over incidents culminating in a brawl.

The report also said that although the pub had been marketed, no buyer had been found.

In one of the supporting documents, an expert valuer said that the Toby Inn, built in 1957, was typical of traditional estate pubs which were no longer viable.

It was owned by the pub company Admiral at the time if its closure and had had a succession of tenants unable to run it profitably.

Other planning applications since the Toby Inn closed have also been turned down.

  1. Elizabeth Reply

    I think the council were right for turning this hostel down and hope the residents of Woodingdean are fully informed about any other applications as to what happens to this place and any other such plans for woodingdean it’s the peoples right to know these things about where they live my granddaughters live opposite this place which would have been overlooked and I hope the council refuse planning in the future if anything they should think about a retirement home for our elderly residents we’ve had enough trouble from the Toby and don’t want anymore

  2. Elizabeth Reply

    I think the council were right for turning this hostel down and hope the residents of Woodingdean are fully informed about any other applications as to what happens to this place and any other such plans for woodingdean it’s the peoples right to know these things about where they live my granddaughters live opposite this place which would have been overlooked and I hope the council refuse planning in the future if anything they should think about a retirement home for our elderly residents we’ve had enough trouble from the Toby and don’t want anymore

  3. Andrew Smith Reply

    I fully agree with Elizabeth regarding the council turning down the application for a hostel. An Old People’s retirement home or similar for our aged residents is a great idea and one that should be persued. It is very close to local amenities, has ample parking and the area is quiet. I live very close to the ex Toby Inn and the last thing we want is a hostel, drop in centre or such like. Knowing this council, the next thing will be Travellers permanent site! Well done to Dee Simson for opposing this and to all the others who fight for the residents of Woodingdean.

  4. Andrew Smith Reply

    I fully agree with Elizabeth regarding the council turning down the application for a hostel. An Old People’s retirement home or similar for our aged residents is a great idea and one that should be persued. It is very close to local amenities, has ample parking and the area is quiet. I live very close to the ex Toby Inn and the last thing we want is a hostel, drop in centre or such like. Knowing this council, the next thing will be Travellers permanent site! Well done to Dee Simson for opposing this and to all the others who fight for the residents of Woodingdean.

  5. Steve Bell Reply

    I completely agree, I meet with Dee Simson at the Local Neighbourhood Watch Launch last night. We will keep a eye of all future applications and especially if they try to appeal against yesterday’s decision. Dee did Woodingdean proud yesterday with her stand against this application

  6. Steve Bell Reply

    I completely agree, I meet with Dee Simson at the Local Neighbourhood Watch Launch last night. We will keep a eye of all future applications and especially if they try to appeal against yesterday’s decision. Dee did Woodingdean proud yesterday with her stand against this application

  7. Valerie Paynter Reply

    Below is the list of addresses (taken from the online planning register)which received a neighbour consultation letter from the council on this. I wonder how many, if any, of these addresses no longer exist. And wonder if Elizabeth’s grandaughter’s place is among them as she is given in the comment as living opposite.

    Always look online at the list of consultees as often you can make a case for extra streets/addresses to be added/informed. The gazeteer of addresses used, however, is about 40 years old so be aware some addresses lettered are black holes. No administration, over the last 10 years of asking, has been prepared to invest in updating it.

    Here’s the list:
    1 Broad Green, Brighton, BN2 6TB
    102 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    104 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    105 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    107 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    109 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    110 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    111 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    112 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    31 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    33 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    35 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    COWLEY DRIVE POST OFFICE, 110 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    FLAT AT, 104 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    ST PATRICKS CHURCH, Broad Green, Brighton, BN2 6TB
    37 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR

  8. Valerie Paynter Reply

    Below is the list of addresses (taken from the online planning register)which received a neighbour consultation letter from the council on this. I wonder how many, if any, of these addresses no longer exist. And wonder if Elizabeth’s grandaughter’s place is among them as she is given in the comment as living opposite.

    Always look online at the list of consultees as often you can make a case for extra streets/addresses to be added/informed. The gazeteer of addresses used, however, is about 40 years old so be aware some addresses lettered are black holes. No administration, over the last 10 years of asking, has been prepared to invest in updating it.

    Here’s the list:
    1 Broad Green, Brighton, BN2 6TB
    102 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    104 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    105 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    107 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    109 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    110 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    111 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    112 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    31 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    33 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    35 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR
    COWLEY DRIVE POST OFFICE, 110 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6TD
    FLAT AT, 104 Cowley Drive, Brighton, BN2 6WD
    ST PATRICKS CHURCH, Broad Green, Brighton, BN2 6TB
    37 Stanstead Crescent, Brighton, BN2 6TR

  9. feline1 Reply

    Valerie, that is bizarre:
    the B&HCC Street Naming & Numbering team *define* the addresses used in the local area. (They’re not dreamt up by the Royal Mail or anything like that). It’s part of every local authority’s statutory functions.

    So, you contention that they’re “40 years out of date” seems very odd. (By definition, they CANNOT be out of date – the list held by B&HCC’s SN&N team *is* the definitive list).
    (Mind you, having dealt with the Street Naming & Numbering Team a few times over the years when I’ve moved house and wanted to ensure I had the correct address to tell banks, etc, they did appear to be a bunch of inefficient loons…)

  10. feline1 Reply

    Valerie, that is bizarre:
    the B&HCC Street Naming & Numbering team *define* the addresses used in the local area. (They’re not dreamt up by the Royal Mail or anything like that). It’s part of every local authority’s statutory functions.

    So, you contention that they’re “40 years out of date” seems very odd. (By definition, they CANNOT be out of date – the list held by B&HCC’s SN&N team *is* the definitive list).
    (Mind you, having dealt with the Street Naming & Numbering Team a few times over the years when I’ve moved house and wanted to ensure I had the correct address to tell banks, etc, they did appear to be a bunch of inefficient loons…)

  11. RJ Reply

    To add onto Feline1 comments.. Also there is a land registry that lists every address.

  12. RJ Reply

    To add onto Feline1 comments.. Also there is a land registry that lists every address.

  13. feline1 Reply

    Now don’t confuse matters, RJ.

    The Land Registry (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry) records who OWNS the freehold on each piece of land in the country. It doesn’t define what the street address of those bits of land is.

    Street addresses are defined by each local authority, under the powers vested in them by The Local Government Act 1858.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Government_Act_1858#Local_Government_Act_1858
    In our case, this is done by B&HCC’s Street Naming & Numbering Team
    http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/parking-and-travel/roads-highway-structures/street-naming-numbering

    I remain surprised by Valerie’s claim that their “Local Land & Property Gazetteer” is “40 years out of date”, as significant portions of the city were not even built 40 years ago (myself included).

  14. feline1 Reply

    Now don’t confuse matters, RJ.

    The Land Registry (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry) records who OWNS the freehold on each piece of land in the country. It doesn’t define what the street address of those bits of land is.

    Street addresses are defined by each local authority, under the powers vested in them by The Local Government Act 1858.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Government_Act_1858#Local_Government_Act_1858
    In our case, this is done by B&HCC’s Street Naming & Numbering Team
    http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/parking-and-travel/roads-highway-structures/street-naming-numbering

    I remain surprised by Valerie’s claim that their “Local Land & Property Gazetteer” is “40 years out of date”, as significant portions of the city were not even built 40 years ago (myself included).

  15. Valerie Paynter Reply

    The council knows the database used for selecting addresses for neighbour consultation lettering is out of date.

    Addresses that no longer exist very frequently get lettered. Have a look at a selection of Engineerium applications, for example. Areas unctions that ceased in 1973 are still listed as viable addresses and lettered.

    When applications for Medina House along Kings Esplanade come along, addresses that preceded the building of Benham Court have been lettered.

    I remember one application for something in George St. Hove where neighbour letters went to some flats (where the Royal Bank of Scotland is).

    These no longer existng addresses are still in use for planning application consultation purposes…alas. But it is interesting to see them from the perspective of local history. When many dozens are lettered it is not a big impact on fairness, but when only a small number are lettered and most of those are non-existent addresses it is serious.

    They had an intention to tackle the issue some years back but then stopped because of financial constraints. Worse now as so many staff are gone or going.

  16. Valerie Paynter Reply

    The council knows the database used for selecting addresses for neighbour consultation lettering is out of date.

    Addresses that no longer exist very frequently get lettered. Have a look at a selection of Engineerium applications, for example. Areas unctions that ceased in 1973 are still listed as viable addresses and lettered.

    When applications for Medina House along Kings Esplanade come along, addresses that preceded the building of Benham Court have been lettered.

    I remember one application for something in George St. Hove where neighbour letters went to some flats (where the Royal Bank of Scotland is).

    These no longer existng addresses are still in use for planning application consultation purposes…alas. But it is interesting to see them from the perspective of local history. When many dozens are lettered it is not a big impact on fairness, but when only a small number are lettered and most of those are non-existent addresses it is serious.

    They had an intention to tackle the issue some years back but then stopped because of financial constraints. Worse now as so many staff are gone or going.

  17. Valerie Paynter Reply

    Feline, it is the redeveloped areas that are obviously affected, where pevious use is falsely in continuing use as current.

  18. Valerie Paynter Reply

    Feline, it is the redeveloped areas that are obviously affected, where pevious use is falsely in continuing use as current.

  19. feline1 Reply

    But they have a STATUTORY DUTY to keep that list (the “Local Land & Property Gazetteer”) accurate. It is used by for everything from the electoral roll to the emergency services to the Royal Mail to planning applications (well, in fact, to ANYTHING that refers to street addresses). It’s actually rather important. Surely they can be prosecuted under the Act if they fail to maintain it?

  20. feline1 Reply

    But they have a STATUTORY DUTY to keep that list (the “Local Land & Property Gazetteer”) accurate. It is used by for everything from the electoral roll to the emergency services to the Royal Mail to planning applications (well, in fact, to ANYTHING that refers to street addresses). It’s actually rather important. Surely they can be prosecuted under the Act if they fail to maintain it?

  21. feline1 Reply

    The Street Naming & Numbering Team are pretty much beyond parody in their ineptness at times though.

    Here’s a tale:
    a few years ago I moved house, into a basement flat.
    Under the rules, basement flats with their own front door/letter box are using given an “A” suffix on their number. (So I was technically as “No. 7A”.

    I told B&HCC Council Tax office of my new address… but after more than a month, I still hadn’t received any paperwork or new bills.
    A few phone calls revealed that they’d been sending my council tax bill to “Flat 1, No. 7” rather than “7A”, so the post man had been putting it through the letter box of the main building, not through my letter box. I didn’t have a key for the main building, so I couldn’t go and get it.

    So, I asked them could they correct the address they were sending my bill to.

    Would they? “No!!! We CAN’T do that! It’s against the law! The Law of England! The Street Naming & Numbering Team would have to amend the register!!! It CAN’T BE DONE!!!” etc etc.

    So, fine, I said – but if you don’t change it, I won’t get my council tax bill. So I can’t pay it. … “Well if you don’t pay it, we’ll have to fine you or send you a court summons.”

    I asked them what address they’d send the summons to… “Flat 1, No.7” … “so I won’t get the summons either, will I?”

    AAAARGH I nearly facepalmed myself unconscious that day, let me tell you.

    It was only by ringing someone’s managers’ manager and demanding to know why they had nonconsensually embroiled me in a re-enactment of Monty Python’s Gas Cooker Sketch that I actually got them to put the correct address on my damn bill.

    BEST. STORY. EVER.

  22. feline1 Reply

    The Street Naming & Numbering Team are pretty much beyond parody in their ineptness at times though.

    Here’s a tale:
    a few years ago I moved house, into a basement flat.
    Under the rules, basement flats with their own front door/letter box are using given an “A” suffix on their number. (So I was technically as “No. 7A”.

    I told B&HCC Council Tax office of my new address… but after more than a month, I still hadn’t received any paperwork or new bills.
    A few phone calls revealed that they’d been sending my council tax bill to “Flat 1, No. 7” rather than “7A”, so the post man had been putting it through the letter box of the main building, not through my letter box. I didn’t have a key for the main building, so I couldn’t go and get it.

    So, I asked them could they correct the address they were sending my bill to.

    Would they? “No!!! We CAN’T do that! It’s against the law! The Law of England! The Street Naming & Numbering Team would have to amend the register!!! It CAN’T BE DONE!!!” etc etc.

    So, fine, I said – but if you don’t change it, I won’t get my council tax bill. So I can’t pay it. … “Well if you don’t pay it, we’ll have to fine you or send you a court summons.”

    I asked them what address they’d send the summons to… “Flat 1, No.7” … “so I won’t get the summons either, will I?”

    AAAARGH I nearly facepalmed myself unconscious that day, let me tell you.

    It was only by ringing someone’s managers’ manager and demanding to know why they had nonconsensually embroiled me in a re-enactment of Monty Python’s Gas Cooker Sketch that I actually got them to put the correct address on my damn bill.

    BEST. STORY. EVER.

  23. Elizabeth Reply

    No my sons address is not on the list above

  24. Elizabeth Reply

    No my sons address is not on the list above

  25. feline1 Reply

    Does this mean your son doesn’t pay council tax? Or that if he dialled for an ambulance they wouldn’t be able to find him?

  26. feline1 Reply

    Does this mean your son doesn’t pay council tax? Or that if he dialled for an ambulance they wouldn’t be able to find him?

  27. Elizabeth Reply

    They’ve asked if he’s address is on the list above which it isn’t and I’m not getting into slanging matches end of

  28. Elizabeth Reply

    They’ve asked if he’s address is on the list above which it isn’t and I’m not getting into slanging matches end of

  29. feline1 Reply

    I see you’re not getting into punctuation either.

    The more I think about Valerie’s claims, the more bizarre they appear.

    Surely the principle way for the Street Naming & Numbering Team’s “Local Land & Property Gazetteer” to change is via the Planning Process? An address can’t disappear, change use, or a new one be created, without going through a planning application! Every time there’s a successful application, the LLPG should be updated. How on earth can there “not be the money available” to do this simple bit of admin? (Planning applications cost a fortune in fees!)

  30. feline1 Reply

    I see you’re not getting into punctuation either.

    The more I think about Valerie’s claims, the more bizarre they appear.

    Surely the principle way for the Street Naming & Numbering Team’s “Local Land & Property Gazetteer” to change is via the Planning Process? An address can’t disappear, change use, or a new one be created, without going through a planning application! Every time there’s a successful application, the LLPG should be updated. How on earth can there “not be the money available” to do this simple bit of admin? (Planning applications cost a fortune in fees!)

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