A visitor to Brighton and Hove has criticised the council for making paying for parking too complicated for people from outside the area.
Greg Porter, from Worthing, was visiting a Hove seafront venue but found that the on-street parking meters were no longer in use and the only option was to use the pay-by-phone app or a phone line.
After spending 20 minutes trying to pay through his phone, Mr Porter gave up. He wrote to Brighton and Hove City Council’s customer feedback department and to Councillor Trevor Muten, who chairs the council’s Transport and Sustainability Committee, to share his concerns.
He said: “It did not give an option to pay by cash. It did not give the option to pay by credit card. It did not display the parking cost tariff rates (Legal implications?) It did not give contact details if experiencing problems.
“The only option was to download an app and then go through a ridiculous time-consuming registration process which failed ultimately – after some considerable time.
“And we were trying to do this during the day in good light and good weather conditions. God knows how anyone is expected to do this in the dark and driving rain.
“How can this ever have been considered as a viable, practical, user-friendly means of servicing the public and local community? Who thought it up and is accountable for its fitness for purpose?
“What happens if you do not have a smartphone? What happens if your phone is out of charge? What happens if you have a poor mobile phone signal? What happens if you do not have a mobile phone with you?
“What happens if you have not been taught or trained to use this process? What happens when, for whatever reason, you cannot make payment even though you are attempting to … What backup process is there?
“The whole concept and practical implications have just not been thought through and the management responsible immediately tasked with thinking again.
“A good example of a local authority who have acted responsibly and professionally in this area is Portsmouth who have parking machines that take cash, take credit cards, use an app and give the parking tariffs.”
The council replied that people could pay using the number 01273 458458, the pay-by-phone app or a PayPoint. It also said that the council communicated with the mobile networks to ensure connectivity.
Off-street parking was also suggested at The Lanes, Regency Square, Trafalgar Street and London Road.
Mr Porter said that he had tried the number but a recorded message told him that it was not in use. He tried an alternative number but, because he did not have an account, he could not pay.
He said: “There is an absurd time involved. The inept proposal that you can wander around looking for a PayPoint location.
“Does a motorist have some divine wisdom as to where he might start and complete this quest?
“There is also the possibility of adverse weather conditions while this saga takes its course.
“There is no practical assistance if you are experiencing problems.”
The council said: “Anyone without a smartphone – or indeed with one – can call 01273 458458 or 0330 400 7275 and pay by credit or debit card.
“The 01273 458458 number is displayed on parking signs and also on our now disused pay and display machines.
“I’m sorry to hear about this particular incident.”
Yes it’s a complete mess up who ever in the council came up with that idea needs sending to jail for being absolutely ridiculous, should get a medal for stupidity. I had the same problems
Steve
Bristol
In the end I gave up crying with frustration and disappointment that my attempted visit to Brighton was a waste of time and fuel even though I live 7 miles away.
I asked passers-by for help but they too couldn’t get through on the call nor figure it out.
I am 76 years old therefore I’m not all that savvy to modern technology so next time how about I wrap the fee in an envelope and tape it to my windscreen.
Seriously councillors, what are you thinking.
Brighton and Hove Council are simply the worst ever ..
No concern for anyone with a car all they will move heaven and earth for is people who own bikes or want to protest and block roads
The council are a complete joke a black mark on the uk
Typical boomer. Me, me me. Smart phones have been commonplace for nearly three decades and computers even more so.
If you have failed over 30 years to learn this essential skill by constantly moaning that you don’t know how, then that’s your problem. The problem is your attitude, not society.
Couldn’t agree more Mick Fry. You can pay on a phone by using the app/site or by calling. I’ve literally no idea what the barriers are beyond attitude
According to Statistia, as of September 2022, the share of respondents aged 16 to 24 years who own a smartphone increased from 29 percent in 2008 to 99 percent in 2022, an increase from the previous year. Combined with the ownership of all age ranges, you have 93% ownership. Then assuming the trend has followed the same projection, there are likely very few people who do not have a smartphone in 2023 and is likely to continue to decrease.
It makes the argument of smartphone non-ownership not very compelling, unfortunately.
Having said that, if someone is struggling with the available methods, it is worth understanding why that is, because it may be an important gap that hadn’t been considered!
I dont by choice, have a simple gsm phone for the last 2 years…if I want internet I have it on my laptop only. Far less stressful
One of life’s more empathetic specimens , are’nt you. Hope you sail through it without ever needing help.
Mark Fry
Huh, the only one here with a poor attitude is you.
Your treatment of a senior is appalling and very rude, you need to learn to respect people but I doubt you understand the meaning.
Anyone with half a brain knows this system could not possibly work. Locals protested long and hard when the council decided to remove pay by cash machines. My neice has to drop her boyfriend off at Madeira Drive to go to work on the pier. She has the parking app on her phone but she cannot pay for parking as she loses signal in Madeira Drive.She frequently has to drop Orr in Kemprown and he walks the last half mile.
You might as well tell visitors not to come to Brighton seafront as you cannot park here. Not good for a city that relies on tourism.
Ian Beck
Your story doesn’t make sense, Ian. Could you help me understand?
Why would your niece need to park if she is just dropping off her boyfriend at work?
That’s a 30-second stop, max. Also, if someone was in a dead zone, there are plenty of opportunities, particularly near Maderia Drive for public hotspots.
I think you have a point though about signal, I haven’t looked at the coverages for Brighton recently, but I’m aware that the West side of Brighton is a deadzone for some carriers. Makes for a good argument for greater public access wifi.
It’s disgusting!! End of the day we are not slaves to the council.. they should be serving us!!! I have to use the app every day to park on seafront at kemp town.. I forgot my phone the other day.. had to go park at whitehawk & take up a space used by residents that already struggle to park at home! Ten had to walk 20 mins to work, was late… its not good enough! Also.. cash is still legal tender! We should be able to pay cash in a machine if we so choose to… I m furious
I would often park at King Alfred and then walk along the prom to go into Brighton to meet son from work and have fish n chips on the beach. Went on Friday and found the machines all taped up and only option was call a number or download the app. Tried to call the number and got no response. I then spent 5 mins downloading the app which after attempting to register and pay did not work. It kept showing a timed out error after each of the steps. Wasted at least 20 mins and finally give up and just headed home. What happened to freedom of choice in how we pay??? I get that cash is almost non existent nowadays but being able to pay by card should be the bare minimum at a machine point. Parking in Brighton has some of the highest charges outside of London. I rarely come into Brighton now unless absolutely necessary. It must be harming trade to a degree.
He is absolutely right. B&H council is only worried about bike lane then making other drivers lives easier. They spend so much our tax payers money on stupid stuff. They are not serving communities at all. Only wants us to
Pay the road taxes and parking. The roads are shamble and dangerous. The parking is nightmare and working this complex machine is even harder.
This may sound crazy. But do you think it’s possible the world has too many cars? And our city centres are being running by them and the resulting noise and air pollution?
Perhaps car pooling, trams, personal lightweight transport (electric scooters/uniwheels) and shopping delivered to homes by electric vehicles… are the kinds of changes we need to embrace?
It’s not like we have streets awash with horse manure and homes like by paraffin lamps anymore, is it?
Brighton is a young and vibrant city (highest student stopover rate in the UK)… there’s been many firsts here, (like the bodyshop) and it’s never been a place that’s been afraid to do things differently… Times change. If we don’t embrace that and move with the change we (and our cities) will end up getting left behind.
Terrible I gave up after 15 minutes parked in tesco instead free of charge
Wouldn’t you normally choose the free option over the paid option anyway?
Move with the times – parking apps don’t take long to get used to. Cash parking machines are notorious for being unreliable, broken into or vandalised. The prices are on the app, it can remind you when your time is up, allow you to remotely add more time and give you a receipt. Try it, you never know you might like it!
I do not own or want a smart phone .It is not good for my health.It is not law that I own one .It is not law that I carry a phone with me at all and I do not want to.
I also work with elderly who find mobile and smart phones really difficult and often they don’t gave a signal or charge.
There should be choice as in other towns cater for community and visitors ,to e abls to pay with cash by card ,by phone or app to include All peoples abilities and choices and circumstance.
I used to work for BHCC & often raised the issue of accessibility for those who don’t want or are not able to use computers & smartphones. They would just quote 80% computer literacy & bang on about free courses at the library. They are not interested in the other 20% as it doesn’t fit with their efficiencies & move toward online only. Everything is about channel shift & saving money
It’s closer to 93% these days, Liza. Looking purely at data objectively with disregard to the human factors, which I don’t advocate, it’s likely the minority of non-smartphone ownership is likely to become insignificant over the next few years.
However, I do also think there are ways we can help with this, I have a proposal I’m putting together for the council to consider which will help with this very specific concern.
And yet you own a computer and you’re happy enough reading and commenting on a digital platform as opposed to mailing a letter for inclusion in the print edition.
A smartphone is just that same computer, but it’s in your pocket. Used responsibly, not only will it make your life easier in a multitude of ways, but who knows, maybe one day, it might end up actually saving your life.
We can’t go back to the days of parrafin lamps, chimney sweeps and the horse and cart. Nor would we want to. Same with modern communication technology. Just a computer (which you’re clearly comfortable with) in your pocket.
This person was a visitor. You expect people who do own mobile phones to bloat their phone storage with downloading an app for one time use? Rubbish.
Apart from anything if you do this in town IF U GET A SIGNAL it’s using up valuable data allowance.
The parking Apps can be used anywhere. They are not exclusive to Brighton.
And they also add on a service charge for using the app. That was never the case for the machine which probably cost a lot more to run.
They are noted to have a shortened lifespan being on the coast. And the additional cost of employing someone to collect the money from them, amongst other things, yeah – they were most likely more expensive to run before this.
Unfortunately this is becoming the new normal. Machines are taking over people’s jobs. People responsible for the chaos they create are impossible to contact. They really have no concern. They save money and authorities are happy with this.there is no concern for people not able to manage modern technology. Just contempt for them . I am afraid this is our future.
.
Even if you move with the times as you rudely suggest, some phones quickly become obsolete and the app doesn’t work……..what then🤬 not everyone can afford a new phone every year!
Most “apps” are simply a controlled webpage on a browser. This is true for a large variety of parking apps out there, most of the major ones in Brighton. Webpages are almost never made obsolete these days, we have to look back to the days of Flash to make that particular argument when Newgrounds was at its peak. Plus it would not be in the app creator’s interest to create an obsolesce like that either, that’d be shooting oneself in the foot, metaphorically speaking.
As an example, I have an old Samsung Note 1. It was released in 2011. That was twelve years ago. It can run all the parking apps, no problem. Therefore, I respectfully do not believe your argument has merit, I’m afraid, Annette. Although if your experience is different, I’d be happy to hear more about it?
And charge you extra for the privilege of using the app!
I actually don’t really agree with this either. I feel the parking charge should be reduced to reflect the service charge applied to the app, or to remove the service charge completely.
If you can’t use the app for whatever reason just phone, it’s not rocket science.
Please confirm where public phone boxes are for those experiencing problems such as mentioned in article ie no mobile, no signal, no charge etc etc etc
I’ve literally never expected no signal anywhere in the city, including in the surrounding forests or South Downs, or within the multi stories. So there, problem solved.
Ah, I mean – there are some coverage issues in Brighton for certain carriers, to be fair. There’s data that can be viewed online showing it. However, it’s pretty good overall.
The parking payment system is a shamble in Brighton, I live in Brighton drive a taxi, I have seen ppl struggling to pay from various car parks. They should at least have one dedicated and manned phone line to help with problems. Once I inputted wrong reg number in Maidstone pay machine, when I phoned the helpline someone answered the phone updated the reg number on the database so when the warden checks his handheld system can see the correct details n payment. (They make enough money to run a phone n employ someone)
The Council say the alternative to using the app is to use PayPoint, but negate to tell you not all Paypoint outlets do the parking scheme. And how do you find the Paypoint shop, if you can’t access a phone ? As such, any parking fine can be challenged.
This really is a crock of sh1t.
BHCC are only interested in taking money from you and don’t give a feck about customer service.
Bad language
The last resort of the ignorant and uneducated
How patronising can you get? That’s frustration, not ignorance,
F…. and s… had been exactly the same words i was shouting out loud into St. Anns Well Garden when the pay by phone app was rejecting my german credit card account.
The management are inept. There should be a complete rethink. Possibly a good way to bring about change would be through your local councillor.
My discussions with mine have always been positive. Ward councillors are usually a pretty sound bunch of people, and I’d always encourage talking to them.
They just want your hard pressed money in their pockets as super fast as possible for as little effort!
Greed! Greed! Greed! Greed!
And they can stuff going into central Brighton now!
I spend my money elsewhere. I avoid Brighton at all cost. Over the years the place has been turned into a complete dump through stupidity of the council of all colours. This is just another example of what to expect……..have a nice day!
Another question. PayByPhone is a commercial organisation who presumably get a cut of the parking fees. So BHCC have outsourced the parking charging to these people and I for one would like to know how much they get.
The old parking machines were taken out of service long before 3G is being turned off, and it wouldn’t have been rocket science to retrofit a 5G ‘modem’ to replace the 3G unit.
Pay by phone and app have an extra fee added of 10p \ 20p.
As to retrofitting a 5G modem – my bet is the machines were built cheap\on a budget and the 3G part will not be replaceable. It is likely to be all the internals that need changing, which probably means a new machine. It is a game called “planned obsolescence” that keeps the machine manufacturers in cash. Zero thought for end user or environmental cost
Realistically, not a problem at all! Wherever there is a telecoms service box you could run a line theoretically to a wi-fi router, and add some boosters to expand the range out just on a basic level!
Give my regards to Crawley…
You’ve done the right thing by not com to this shambolic town try Seaford, it has some nice shops ,and pubs and is so easy to park ,ps I do live in Brighton
I have to agree. It’s official.
Brighton is a real dump !
Why anyone would want to go into the town centre is beyond me .
The walk down the dirty ,seedy roads of Queens Road and West Street to the sea should sum up what the city stands for !
The kingswest/Odeon building is sited on the best location in the centre,and yet it is ,run down ,dirty ,rusty ,frequented by homeless people ,with their duvets left to rot in the rain .
Imagine having your photo taken there .people would think you lived in a 3 rd world country .
Oh,but then that’s what Brighton is nowadays .To sum up :
A filthy, graffiti,metal rubbish bins,litter ,grotty, congested city .
Only visit after dark it doesn’t look so bad then !
As long as you know your opinion is quite clearly not shared by thousands of others who love the city. Enjoy Crawley or Worthing. Personally I’ll enjoy lovely Brighton without the likes of you.
The disgust impulse is an innate emotional response to things that are perceived as dirty, dangerous, or harmful. It is thought to be an evolutionary adaptation that helps us to avoid disease and other threats.
The disgust impulse can be aligned with right-wing views in a number of ways. For example, people who are high in disgust sensitivity are more likely to hold negative views of immigrants, people of different races and cultures, and people who engage in unconventional behaviors. They are also more likely to support policies that restrict immigration and social change.
I have stopped visiting Brighton shops for this very reason. If I need to be there I shop at Tesco Hove where parking is free for 3 hours.
Love the crap about liaising with the mobile companies to ensure good connection!!lol, ffs, what a bunch of idiots they truly are!
Has anyone seen any machine being removed ? Or does the phone app reply on them for a signal saying where they are parking ?
Also why are there no prices displayed anywhere ? I am sure that falls foul of some sort of consumer law.
The explanation there would be that the prices are clearly displayed on the app before you make a purchase. There are also websites that keep an update on the prices of the areas. Also, the BHCC website also shows the prices of all their parking zones.
However, prices on a sign is totally not unreasonable!
The main issue is that mobile signal across B&H is so awful. On a busy day down on the seafront there’s virtually no data from the aquarium roundabout all the way into Hove, and the same in Hanover at any time. The infrastructure simply isn’t there to make an app-only approach work.
You can blame local NIMBYs for that: the networks are continually trying to put more masts up and get blocked.
There are a few good websites that show coverage for various networks. There are some very clear gaps. Noteworthy is that these gaps were also where several developments were objected to would have been serviced. I’m also wondering if there’s potential to expand on how many places have a tablet set up with a parking app you can tap into? Prince Regent Swimming Complex comes to mind as an example.
Are people forgetting there’s also free Brighton and Hove WiFi hotspots all over which usually cover areas suffering high network congestion?
Might be an idea for the council to mention that when ppl use network connectivity as an argument against them trying to move with the times.
There’s so much ailing infrastructure not fit for purpose (like all the rotting BT phone kiosks) from another technological era we really can move beyond now.
Free Brighton and Hove WiFi hotspots cover pretty much all the areas with high mobile network congestion AFAIK.
Has anyone thought of replacing the machines with a telephone which just connects to the service provider. These won’t need 4g and can work off 2g signal. This covers all bases then. Or why not revert back to the very useful scratch card payment which used to be used and sold by practically every newsagents and supermarket and post office in town. They had the advantage u could buy them in advance. Council also benefit as they get the money up front and I bet a good chunk of them never got used.
All excellent ideas. The current guest parking permit system could be widely expanded to include selling them to businesses for that very reason mitigating a lot of potential struggles described here.
I have to say that I agree, we had some friends visit from Portsmouth and they couldn’t find out how much the parking on Hove seafront was, they couldn’t get a signal to download the app, and there was no response from the phone line. They ended up in the car park by the council office which was extremely expensive and a fair distance from us. Scrap the app asap, I am 62 and can’t work it out either, it really is a poor show BHCC.
I think Portsmouth has a particular issue with mobile broadband service, from what I’ve seen in coverage reports. There’s a potential proposal there that I’d like to discuss with the council – which part of the Hove seafront was it, out of curiosity?
Regarding getting a signal – lots of people (presumably with loads of money) are trying and failing to hire Beryl Bikes, and simply giving up. The Beryl Bike scheme cost an eye-watering £13m. Well done cllr Davis – money well spent!
This is the city I grew up in, but I don’t visit anymore. it’s visitor unfriendly, to a ludicrous level.
11m visitors a year
Derek – the celebrated BHCC apologist speaks!
Jane – the unknown lady who speaks in ad hominem. If you have a non-fallacious retort to that information, I’d be glad to debate it with you. Derek and I don’t always agree, however, it is a very good point made – Brighton gets a lot of visitors.
A legacy of 9 years of caroline lucas and the green party..millions wasted on vanity projects.while leaving the town to rot. Labour who powershared with the greens. Have certainly taken the anti car agenda to another level..the greens failure to ban cars, has resulted in cars coming into brighton..and now being unable to park.i feel for business in brighton..
It’s really not complicated. It’s a skill issue if you can’t work out how to pay for parking. If you can drive a car I’m sure you can figure out how to make a phonecall or use an app. Or, just park in a place with different arrangements. It’s not hard to find other types of parking that don’t require you to use a phone.
It’s not really complicated he says. I have no use for a smart phone I have a simple phone for making calls and texting, that’s all I need.
No alternatives for those of us who don’t want to use apps that incur extra charges.
How about this.
1) walk to machine enter details put in coins or chip and pin put ticket on dashboard.
2) Obtain pre-paid scratch cards and place on dashboard.
Oh man, epic whinging from the Luddites on this thread. Let’s be honest, the pre-parking app experience went something like this:
1. Try to find parking meter.
2. Discover it has been vandalised, so find another.
3. Realise you don’t have any change.
4. Find a newsagent.
5. Newsagent refuses to break your banknote so you have to buy an item you don’t want.
6. Discover that the price of the item you picked up hurriedly means you don’t have enough change to pay for parking.
7. Return to the newsagent who begrudgingly breaks your fiver.
8. Return to the parking meter and buy a ticket.
9. Return to your car to put the ticket on the dashboard.
10. Return later to your car to discover the sea breeze blew it off the dashboard when you closed the door and you have been given a ticket.
Hmm, interesting.
How about this, knowing I am going to park somewhere in the town/village/city (perhaps somewhere I’ve never been before) I consider my options and ensure I have sufficient coinage.
Only the thick lame and lazy get caught out and get given tickets.
Wouldn’t it be just as easy to make sure you had the right app on your phone when making your visit? But then, you’re not “thick lame and lazy” so you’d know that.
My comment was as you know for another poster who I think made some valid points but exaggerated to the extreme.
Knowing machines may be faulty, or the app/phone doesn’t work I was highlighting a point of being prepared. I know that I will be spending x amount at a fuel stop and carry enough cash incase there’s a problem to cover, just saying.
Too many people rely on technology without a back up plan.
Not everybody has smart phones or don’t want apps or don’t want to be charged for using the service.
I’m happy using a card like I do on the bus, in shops and other places, being forced to obtain a new phone and download apps that I don’t want isn’t giving people a choice.
We’re in a difficult financial climate as you know, I don’t want the extra 10 or 20p fees they add on or waste of data.
Brighton is rammed, nobody is staying away
Don’t go into Brighton anymore. Buy on line, go to out of Town shops or Worthing or Eastbourne. Thought BHCC was meant to be inclusive?
Death of the high street is not exclusive to Brighton and is caused more by the convenience of online shopping. Has very little to do with parking, albeit a small factor.
Brighton and Hove City Council clearly do not want anyone to drive around here, so are making it extremely unpleasant/expensive to park here. They want to encourage cycling, walking and taking the bus instead.
A city that survives on tourism won’t thrive with this attitude.
Our city centre is appalling, dirty, smelly and feeling increasingly unsafe.
Tourists will find other places to spend their money. There are plenty of gorgeous beach destinations in the UK that are far more welcoming.
There’s nothing wrong with promoting active travel, however, it is important that people are able to use their cars because it’s required for many people. The constant train strikes are also a really confounding factor at the moment because it is causing a lot of people to choose to drive due to the train schedule unreliability and disruption to service.
In reality, surviving on tourism might not actually be the case, having a precursory look at the budget figures for 2023/24.
Choice! Took one minute to pay by coin. Never drive into Brighton now. Not intending to link a credit card to my phone nor take 15 minutes to get through. I wonder what the town traders think.
Surprised so many luddites have mastered the skills for commenting on highly advanced digital technologies like websites :p
Presumably they were all dragged kicking and screaming over to the online editions of newspapers and would love to go back to penning angry diatribes in the ‘letters to the editor’ section of the print edition? 😛
You assume those who have various reasons not to use apps on their were all dragged kicking and screaming onto online etc.
I hate to inform you, but people have things called computers and lap tops etc etc that have been around for decades now.
People, believe it or not, do not want/have/need/can afford Smart phones or want apps, but you being of low intelligence can’t work that out. It’s my opinion you need to be dragged out that gutter you’re in as your comments are frankly disgusting.
I attempted to pay for my parking as I usually do. However the system stated that the card was declined. After hours of calling my bank and visa they confirmed that the card was fully functioning and that the ‘block’ was in place on the B& H telephone parking system itself.
I then attempted to contact B&H parking services, which was fully automated and unable to explore the issue or provide advice.
I received a parking ticket during the time I had spent investigating the problem (which was B&H’s ‘block’ and not anything to do with the payment method or my actions and attempts to pay the parking charge in the first instance)
I still cannot contact B& H parking services to rectify as the system is fully automated and no options are available on the numbers provided to speak or communicate with the service directly.
I will jot pay the fine as I had/ have used my best endeavours to pay for the parking, but the issue remains with B&H telephone parking system error. I am willing to attend Court and seek legal advice as it appears that the councils systems are not effective nor inclusive in any way to those who have a need to communicate a difficulty to the City Council.